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Old 29th August 2018, 15:14   #52201  |  Link
Siso
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That may be true, but after the doubling is done, it has to downscale it.
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Old 29th August 2018, 15:31   #52202  |  Link
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yes it have to be but even then it doesn't mean it is more expensive.
2x scaler are so good in madVR that is may be worth it and downscaling has a very very high level in madVR.
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Old 29th August 2018, 15:40   #52203  |  Link
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yes it have to be but even then it doesn't mean it is more expensive.
2x scaler are so good in madVR that is may be worth it and downscaling has a very very high level in madVR.
I'll do some testing with the doubling, is SSIM 1D 100%+ scale in linear light and AR-relaxed a good downscaler?
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Old 29th August 2018, 17:45   #52204  |  Link
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Madshi says GTX 1050 = underpowered with latest Madvr setting, which means RTX 2080Ti is a must, haha

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post56716594
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Old 29th August 2018, 17:45   #52205  |  Link
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... never good loud at all temp and not problems too.
s.
my card nearly hits nearly 50 decibels at full load which is apparently normal for this card, i've never hard a card thats quiet at full load though, pushing that much air has to make a decent amount of noise.

Mine is silent up to about 60% fan
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Old 29th August 2018, 18:06   #52206  |  Link
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Madshi says GTX 1050 = underpowered with latest Madvr setting, which means RTX 2080Ti is a must, haha

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post56716594
Come on, it's a non-optimized test build with a bug (no x64 support), don't be ridiculous! It's been fixed in build 10, two posts down (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post56716852). Please don't comment here about the experimental work being undergone there. Anyone installing these test builds should understand that they are a work in progress. Post there if you can contribute, otherwise wait for the next official build and discuss it here.
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Last edited by Manni; 29th August 2018 at 18:13.
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Old 29th August 2018, 18:22   #52207  |  Link
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Is the HDR -> SDR tone-mapping work done in the other thread beneficial for use on an LG B7 in HDR mode (bt. 2020, ~750 nit max, etc.)? Or is it only useful for converting to rec 709 and ~120 nit?
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Old 29th August 2018, 18:36   #52208  |  Link
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Come on, it's a non-optimized test build with a bug (no x64 support), don't be ridiculous! It's been fixed in build 10, two posts down (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post56716852). Please don't comment here about the experimental work being undergone there. Anyone installing these test builds should understand that they are a work in progress. Post there if you can contribute, otherwise wait for the next official build and discuss it here.
actually currently no video card could run the highest setting of madvr-upscaling, like upscaling a 480p video to 4k, even the 1080ti drops a lot frames, my friend tests it with a common anime video (x264, 500MB, 20mins)
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Old 29th August 2018, 18:49   #52209  |  Link
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Is the HDR -> SDR tone-mapping work done in the other thread beneficial for use on an LG B7 in HDR mode (bt. 2020, ~750 nit max, etc.)? Or is it only useful for converting to rec 709 and ~120 nit?
You can set madVR to tone map and then pass the result to the display in PQ with HDR metadata. But you would have to find a target nits that disables the display's own tone mapping. And, even then, the display might still alter the input in unwanted ways. You would have to experiment with this setting in the hdr menu (process by pixel shader math).

HDR -> SDR can output to any brightness or color gamut. The problem is your SDR calibration would have to balance both formats. SDR is most accurate close to 100 nits, while HDR is most accurate close to 1,000 or 4,000 nits. So it isn't easy to balance the two with a reasonably bright display.
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Old 29th August 2018, 18:53   #52210  |  Link
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noise is the biggest problem for me now with MADVR, its so bad on my RX 580 i've had to move back down to NGU Low from HIGH, have been getting high with sub 20ms rendering which is pretty good for polaris.

Thought about watercooling my card but to expensive and too much of a faff.

I've done as much soundproofing as I can, you can only go so far before you ambient temps get too high, my PC is now idling about 45 degrees which isnt great.
A noisy fan is common with a budget card. I made this mistake once and wouldn't make it again. I can't believe how bad the fans are on some GPUs. The gaming models can be nearly silent under load.

Try installing MSI Afterburner and creating a custom fan curve. You can keep the fan at idle or at a low speed until the GPU becomes very hot. If the card never gets past this temperature with your desired settings, then you don't have to worry about excessive cooling, which the default fan profile will usually do.
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Old 29th August 2018, 19:11   #52211  |  Link
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You can set madVR to tone map and then pass the result to the display in PQ with HDR metadata. But you would have to find a target nits that disables the display's own tone mapping. And, even then, the display might still alter the input in unwanted ways. You would have to experiment with this setting in the hdr menu (process by pixel shader math).

HDR -> SDR can output to any brightness or color gamut. The problem is your SDR calibration would have to balance both formats. SDR is most accurate close to 100 nits, while HDR is most accurate close to 1,000 or 4,000 nits. So it isn't easy to balance the two with a reasonably bright display.
Thanks, that's why I would prefer to keep the two separated. But you say SDR can output to any brightness or color gamut, but how would that actually work on my TV in SDR mode while maintaining peak brightness and bt.2020? I can't say that's something I've ever thought to try or calibrate towards. Would this result in an image with the same peak brightness and color gamut that HDR mode and source could provide (aside from the fact that tone-mapping would be different, but I would have control over it)?
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Old 29th August 2018, 19:23   #52212  |  Link
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Thanks, that's why I would prefer to keep the two separated. But you say SDR can output to any brightness or color gamut, but how would that actually work on my TV in SDR mode while maintaining peak brightness and bt.2020? I can't say that's something I've ever thought to try or calibrate towards. Would this result in an image with the same peak brightness and color gamut that HDR mode and source could provide (aside from the fact that tone-mapping would be different, but I would have control over it)?
You get the brightness of your display's SDR calibration, whatever that might be. It would not be as bright as HDR mode, unless you turn the backlight all the way up to the maximum.

The gamut would have to also be shared between the two formats unless your display has a setting to display each gamut accurately without a conversion.

You could create two profiles:

If (HDR) "BT.2020"
else "BT.709"

Last edited by Warner306; 29th August 2018 at 19:31.
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Old 29th August 2018, 19:34   #52213  |  Link
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Sorry, that's not quite what I meant and this might be a TV specific question. With this conversion, can I make my SDR mode perform like the HDR mode, minus the tone-mapping that would be done by MadVR now, if I calibrate it to max brightness and output in bt.2020? Or would using HDR mode still be the best option, especially on my TV? I ask because HDR mode is a bit finicky and I have a lot less control over the calibration.
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Old 29th August 2018, 19:37   #52214  |  Link
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Originally Posted by blu3wh0 View Post
Sorry, that's not quite what I meant and this might be a TV specific question. With this conversion, can I make my SDR mode perform like the HDR mode, minus the tone-mapping that would be done by MadVR now, if I calibrate it to max brightness and output in bt.2020? Or would using HDR mode still be the best option, especially on my TV? I ask because HDR mode is a bit finicky and I have a lot less control over the calibration.
You could calibrate SDR mode to the maximum brightness. But your gamma curve would likely be less accurate, and this would harm the HDR -> SDR conversion. SDR content would also look terrible.
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Old 29th August 2018, 19:48   #52215  |  Link
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I can have different TV profiles for normal SDR, so I'm not concerned about that. But it sounds like this conversion isn't really designed for improving tone-mapping in HDR mode on a TV that does it decently enough.
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Old 29th August 2018, 19:54   #52216  |  Link
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I can have different TV profiles for normal SDR, so I'm not concerned about that. But it sounds like this conversion isn't really designed for improving tone-mapping in HDR mode on a TV that does it decently enough.
You should try the process by pixel shader option and see if it works harmoniously with your TV. Without the ability to disable the display's tone mapping, it is hard to provide tone mapping for a display that enforces its own PQ curve. A 3D LUT can make adjustments working with the display's HDR mode, but it is a fixed curve for all videos.

It is a better option for a projector. Some still choose to use HDR -> SDR by sacrificing some brightness with HDR content for madVR's tone mapping. It partly depends on the brightness of your display in HDR mode.

Last edited by Warner306; 29th August 2018 at 21:13.
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Old 29th August 2018, 21:07   #52217  |  Link
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I'll do some testing with the doubling, is SSIM 1D 100%+ scale in linear light and AR-relaxed a good downscaler?
i personally don't like bicubic 150 but that should be more than good enough. there is the possibility to scale chroma and luma differently which may not work with super xbr so NGU low maybe has the upper in this case.
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Old 29th August 2018, 21:44   #52218  |  Link
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A noisy fan is common.....
yeah already doing that with argus monitor, useful little all in one fan controller tool, my GPU runs at 20% until it hits 60 degrees, it steadily climbs from there.

I've also logged a ticket with saffire to see if i have a fault with the fans or whether I can buy any quieter versions, its a current card so hoping I can.

cheers,


EDIT - got my figures way off, must have been thinking about another card. My current sapphire rx 580 nitro+ 4gb is only silent under 40% fan, if I run MADVR at NGU sharp high for both upscale and chroma it taxes my card about 70% GPU.

I've found that if I set me fan curve to to run at 40% fan right up to 80 degrees it remains at a stable 75 degrees whilst running fairly silent, this was with a 4k HDR movie which seems to tax the card much more than upscaling from 480p to 4k for some reason... go figure...

Last edited by mclingo; 30th August 2018 at 11:30.
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Old 29th August 2018, 22:00   #52219  |  Link
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You get the brightness of your display's SDR calibration, whatever that might be. It would not be as bright as HDR mode, unless you turn the backlight all the way up to the maximum.
It's still won't be enough. Consumer level oleds peak around 480 nits when not using internal HDR mode. I guess this is for power efficiency reasons or/and to prevent burn-in.
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Old 29th August 2018, 22:50   #52220  |  Link
Manni
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actually currently no video card could run the highest setting of madvr-upscaling, like upscaling a 480p video to 4k, even the 1080ti drops a lot frames, my friend tests it with a common anime video (x264, 500MB, 20mins)
I have no idea what you're talking about, I upscale 480p video to 4K with my 1080ti and I don't drop any frame. Of course, I don't use the same settings as for 1080p or 4K, but that's what profiles are for.

In any case, this has NOTHING to do with the build you linked to, which is an experimental build for HDR conversion with pixel shader.

I'm only saying, please post here about official builds, and there if you can help the work in progress instead of wasting our time.

If you have any questions about upscaling 480p content, feel free to ask here but don't use an experimental build that had a bug to make a point. It's ridiculous.
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Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 29th August 2018 at 22:52.
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