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Old 17th July 2016, 20:24   #38801  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Tried the camp demo, still think 25% luminance reduction and 75% saturation looks best. On the tents in the dark it's hard to choose between 25/75 and 50/50 though. I felt like 25/75 left the red tent a bit too bright, and 50/50 darkened it a bit too much. 33.3/66.7 might be a good compromise for that particular scene. 100/0 is right out by the way, causes awful banding on the sun at the beginning of the scene.

Edit: Oh, I should mention I tested this using 120 nits for the display luminance to match my calibration, but 120 nits might still be overbrightening things. 180 nits looks less washed out, though it's hard to say what the 'right' brightness should be.

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 17th July 2016 at 20:29.
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Old 17th July 2016, 20:44   #38802  |  Link
zoyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Do the gradients also get lost with 75% luminance reduction? Which HDR demo file (and runtime in the file) are you testing this with?
0% was best for this case and not much difference with 25% but started losing detail by 50%. pm'd about clip.

@Ver Greeneyes, I don't get any banding at any of the settings. That tent scene amber headlight renders best at 100%/0% while the white headlight renders best at 0%/100% on my display. Those renderings also best match the full CalMAN LUT mapping.
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Old 17th July 2016, 20:56   #38803  |  Link
ShiftyFella
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
* HDR: added option to define how to handle too bright & saturated pixels
did quick test

sony camp:
100% luminance 0% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/xTousOt.jpg
50%: http://i.imgur.com/55ztgDJ.jpg
0% luminance 100% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/YWe8Txv.jpg

chess demo:

100% Luminance 0% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/VwRWAI9.jpg
50%: http://i.imgur.com/v0S7SSw.jpg
0% luminance 100% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/KfpXHHJ.jpg

100% Luminance 0% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/z0mJ5hj.jpg
50%: http://i.imgur.com/OA13aqp.jpg
0% luminance 100% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/59CMxPp.jpg

To my eyes camp looked better with 100% luminance but for chess demo it was exact opposite and only 100% saturation looked like it should. I think even with 'looked best' option it's still not quite ideal and i can see in some places of the image where other options work better but rest of the picture looks wrong with them. I'm happy that we have options for now
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Old 17th July 2016, 21:07   #38804  |  Link
zoyd
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The chess demo is encoded incorrectly- I wouldn't use it for eval.
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Old 17th July 2016, 21:22   #38805  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.90.23 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* custom output levels can now be adjusted in 0.25
What does this option do?
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Old 17th July 2016, 21:27   #38806  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.90.23 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* HDR: added option to define how to handle too bright & saturated pixels
Can you also define this?
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Old 17th July 2016, 22:19   #38807  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
@Ver Greeneyes, I don't get any banding at any of the settings. That tent scene amber headlight renders best at 100%/0% while the white headlight renders best at 0%/100% on my display. Those renderings also best match the full CalMAN LUT mapping.
Maybe banding was the wrong word, but the sun looks odd to me with 100% luminance reduction. Here's a comparison:

100% luminance reduction and 0% saturation
75% luminance reduction and 25% saturation
50% luminance reduction and 50% saturation
25% luminance reduction and 75% saturation
0% luminance reduction and 100% saturation

(I normally use a 3DLUT but I turned it off for this)

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 17th July 2016 at 22:25.
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Old 17th July 2016, 22:30   #38808  |  Link
ShiftyFella
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The chess demo is encoded incorrectly- I wouldn't use it for eval.
Are you referring to values being higher then defined peak luminance in metadata? Shouldn't madvr compression account for this or are they being clipped. I don't know how this is being handled by madvr, as for lg clip, I think metadata is wrong rather then encode but I could be wrong.
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Old 17th July 2016, 22:56   #38809  |  Link
zoyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
Are you referring to values being higher then defined peak luminance in metadata? Shouldn't madvr compression account for this or are they being clipped. I don't know how this is being handled by madvr, as for lg clip, I think metadata is wrong rather then encode but I could be wrong.
The encode has values up to 10,000 nits which is clearly wrong. madVR has no idea how to handle this situation since it has no idea what the values should be. It makes no sense to tune an algorithm to faulty input data.
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Old 17th July 2016, 23:08   #38810  |  Link
CarlosCaco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

No, I didn't change anything in that area from .22 to .23.
so in .22 it should be working with simple upscaling without (supersampling) 1280x720 to 1366x768?
in this case not working only working with supersampling...
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Old 17th July 2016, 23:16   #38811  |  Link
ShiftyFella
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Originally Posted by pose View Post
ShiftyFella, performance of your 290x is amazing! I really hope that RX 480 will perform as well but i doubt it after seeing Sunset1982 test. He compared RX 480 to GTX 970 and they are pretty close in terms of performance. If i remember correctly, back in the days NNEDI3 worked faster on AMD cards and my 7870 were faster than 970. Maybe things changed since then but this is really concerns me.
I don't have 4k screen, otherwise I would do his test to compare numbers but at 1440p and setting I mentioned earlier, render time difference is about 1-2ms and sometimes less as you don't have to do downscaling from doubled 720p image

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Maybe banding was the wrong word, but the sun looks odd to me with 100% luminance reduction
I think there is no perfect settings to this clip, looks at this scene:
100% luminance 0% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/GP9KSYC.jpg
0% luminance 100% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/6e5DiMB.jpg

either setting produces wrong clouds

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The encode has values up to 10,000 nits which is clearly wrong. madVR has no idea how to handle this situation since it has no idea what the values should be. It makes no sense to tune an algorithm to faulty input data.
I guess you're right, at least sony demo stays withing 4000 nits. too bad there are so few hdr demos that you can play with madvr that are publicly available
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Old 17th July 2016, 23:20   #38812  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

There's one more thing I might have changed: In older versions when there was image doubling -> downscaling, IIRC I ran upscaling refinement on the downscaled final res. I might have changed that to run on the doubled image before downscaling. Which of course would also increase render times, but should also improve image quality.
Seems like this is what was causing the higher rendering times on versions after .20, at least in my case that is.

Any chance the old upscale refinement procedure could return as a trade quality for performance option (if there's a meaningful reason for that PQ-wise in the first place)?

Interestingly, for 720p -> 1080p upscales with SR2, I'm getting identical (practically to the millisecond) processing times for:

a) SSIM 2D on v.20
b) SSIM 1D on versions after .20

I currently lack the time to do any meaningful comparisons, but I'd be curious to know theoretically at least which one should provide the better PQ. I've settled on SSIM 1D for now because it's a bit more efficient than Jinc.

Last edited by Uoppi; 17th July 2016 at 23:24.
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Old 17th July 2016, 23:51   #38813  |  Link
zoyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Maybe banding was the wrong word, but the sun looks odd to me with 100% luminance reduction.
yes, I see what you mean and after checking it here there is some sort of artifact @100%, 0% or 25% looked ok.

This scene looked best at 50/50, so I think this method is too scene dependent.

lantern
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Old 17th July 2016, 23:57   #38814  |  Link
x7007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post




Can you please make a screenshot of the Ctrl+J OSD with these "worst quality" settings where the render queue doesn't fill in windowed mode?
I'll make as soon as I'm at work

It's weird. When I'm in Windowed mode and focused on the potplayer window it lowers the Queues . When I'm not in focus it goes back to full .... LoL

Every time I click outside the video on desktop or something else and back on the video, the Queue changes and goes back again. After I did it couple of times the Queue are actually fine now. but it still changes to low - bad to high - good if I keep clicking like before.




Last edited by x7007; 18th July 2016 at 00:01.
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Old 18th July 2016, 01:04   #38815  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
To my eyes camp looked better with 100% luminance
From my results with a Sony X8500D using the Cinema Pro preset I'd agree with this but maybe as madshi said we should be trying some other mixed options to find something that works well for most content.
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Old 18th July 2016, 05:47   #38816  |  Link
James Freeman
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The chess demo is encoded incorrectly- I wouldn't use it for eval.
I agree, madVR relies on the metadata and selected peak luminance value.
This Chess demo unfortunately is not a good source for testing.
Out of the two free demos we have, both are a total mess in terms of encoding and metadata.
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Old 18th July 2016, 07:15   #38817  |  Link
K2mil
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Don't think anyone else does. Is it FSE mode? Are you using D3D11? Windowed overlay? Are you changing refresh rates? You could always just stay in windowed mode. Did you do a fresh install of your drivers of did you just install the 1070 straight in after taking out another Nvidia card?


Thanks I didn't have D3D11 checked now It seams to work perfect now. Yes I always do clean installation of drivers.

Any settings suggestion you would shear I'm very new to this and there is over 1000 pages

I should add that I'm on 1440p 144hz mostly playing mp4 1080p
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Old 18th July 2016, 10:28   #38818  |  Link
QBhd
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I have a couple of observations to report. First, the "ShowRenderSteps" trick is very cool, would be nice if the list continued in a second column so we can see everything, but it is what it is. Second, the "ShowRenderSteps" is actually more demanding than regular OSD... pushes my 720p profile way over the edge, more than likely due the many more lines of info that need to be drawn, again it is what it is and not a big deal.

Now to the important info to report, My setup: 1280x720 ==> 1024x768

1) Upscaling Refinements definitely were not being used in version 0.90.20... I had never noticed since I never really tested them, I had just copied a previous profile where upscaling refinement was actually being used when I created the 720p profiles. So it is good to know that what I thought was a spectacular image had nothing to do with US Refinements.

2) SSIM Downscaling is NOT being used in version 0.90.23 and this is very noticeable, Bicubic150 AR is OK, but I truly do prefer SSIM2D-100 w/AR-Relaxed

Here are some screen shots:

v0.90.23



v0.90.20



So I am going to stick with v0.90.20, but not for the reason I had originally thought (the "performance" hit)... broken downscaling is the real reason to stick with the older version.

QB
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Old 18th July 2016, 20:37   #38819  |  Link
leeperry
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I truly do prefer SSIM2D-100 w/AR-Relaxed
IIRC the relaxed/strict subsetting for downscaling AR doesn't do anything with SSIM?
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Old 18th July 2016, 21:01   #38820  |  Link
QBhd
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
IIRC the relaxed/strict subsetting for downscaling AR doesn't do anything with SSIM?
Hmmm, I thought I had tested that and noticed a difference and stuck with the relaxed setting... either way, it's soft or relaxed or NO AR... I'll stick with AR on.

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