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Old 6th March 2014, 01:37   #24341  |  Link
seiyafan
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Here's the result of R9 290X



This is the result of upscaling to 1440 with a H.265 encoded video, rendering time is 10-30% longer with bluray, ouch! If you are upscaling to 4k expect the time to be even longer. I also tried to "maxed out" MadVR with 256 neurons in both luma and chroma doubling, as you can see, it answered my question of why madshi decided to stop at 256 and not go higher. :P

If graphics card performance doubles every two years, then in 5-6 years you can upscale to 1440 with 256 neurons without frame dropping, for 4k maybe in 7-9 years? Maybe in eight years the high end will be 8k instead of 4k, who knows?

Last edited by seiyafan; 6th March 2014 at 02:01.
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Old 6th March 2014, 02:30   #24342  |  Link
Asmodian
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* fixed: #170: Overlay mode sometimes unnecessarily cleared GPU gamma ramps
Nice new version! Thanks a lot for this fix. And everything else too of course.
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Old 6th March 2014, 02:40   #24343  |  Link
seiyafan
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Does "use OpenCL to process DXVA NV12 surfaces(Intel, AMD)" do anything? In my test it reduced rendering time from 38.36ms to 38.24ms.
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Old 6th March 2014, 02:52   #24344  |  Link
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Old 6th March 2014, 03:16   #24345  |  Link
Anime Viewer
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Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
Just want to double check, in MPC under LAV video decoder, what's a good hardware decoder to use? Is it none?
There are quite a number of things you could take into consideration when deciding if you should use a hardware LAV video decoder, or choose none.

As has been mentioned before on this board using LAV hardware acceleration can lead to faster ms rendering times.

Do you like, or use Smooth Motion with madVR? During my testing of using different LAV video hardware decoder options I found that I'd get dropped frames somewhere along the way (in some cases not until 6 or 7 minutes of video played) if I had Smooth Motion enabled in madVR and any of the hardware decoding options selected in LAV. I've concluded that my video playback is smooth enough without Smooth Motion enabled on my system, and that I'm not a fan of the blur effect that smooth motion adds to some moving objects when its enabled. If you like using Smooth Motion then you should probably set the LAV hardware decoder to none.

Next thing to consider is the power of your CPU and GPU. The more powerful your GPU the more benefit you may see from selecting a hardware decoder. If you have a strong GPU and weak CPU then using hardware acceleration may be the better choice. On the other end of that if you have a strong CPU, but a weak GPU then you may be better with none selected as software will be used, and thus more of the load will be passed to the CPU.

Some Nvidia users seem to prefer to go with one of the DXVA2 options over NVIDIA CUVID because they say CUVID turns the GPU on for 100% of the time CUVID is being used while DXVA2 can fluctuate the GPU usage. If your using a laptop/notebook and viewing your videos while running on the notebooks battery then you'll probably want to run it with one of the DXVAs (or None) instead of CUVID. If you have a noisy fan or cooling system then likewise you may want to choose DXVA2 or None. If you're watching your videos while plugged into an electrical outlet, and you have a quite fan/cooling system then why not let the GPU kick up to full power.

I found in my testing of watching one video with CUVID set to do LAV Video hardware decoding that I had a consistent 5.51ms rendering and 1.51ms present while viewing. While running with the DXVA2 and none options I saw it steadily creep up from 5.56ms to an ever increasing number as video playback continued (22+ms 2 and a half minutes into viewing with DXVA2, and 16+ms at the same point with None selected ... a bug in the readings perhaps...). If you're using a system that is using an AMD or Intel then you don't even need to consider CUVID.

Like most people on this board you'll probably want to experiment and see what gives you good speed while also providing stability and freedom from glitches during video playback. What works best on one system may not be the best settings on others.
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System specs: Sager NP9150 SE with i7-3630QM 2.40GHz, 16 GB RAM, 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, NVidia GTX 680M/Intel 4000 HD optimus dual GPU system. Video viewed on LG notebook screen and LG 3D passive TV.
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Old 6th March 2014, 03:22   #24346  |  Link
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Just wondering if maybe we should have 'Delay playback until render queues are full' enabled by default, not having it enabled shows multiple drops frames on playback of the next file in the playlist for me.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:00   #24347  |  Link
seiyafan
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Are most of you using MPC-HC or BE? I just tried BE and couldn't figure out how to get MadVR to work.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:03   #24348  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
While running with the DXVA2 and none options I saw it steadily creep up from 5.56ms to an ever increasing number as video playback continued (22+ms 2 and a half minutes into viewing with DXVA2, and 16+ms at the same point with None selected ... a bug in the readings perhaps...).
This is the declocking you mentioned, since madVR only needs a new frame every 33-41ms on 30-24fps content the GPU can declock until if feels it is only fast enough for its workload.

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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Just wondering if maybe we should have 'Delay playback until render queues are full' enabled by default, not having it enabled shows multiple drops frames on playback of the next file in the playlist for me.
But is that worse then a longer startup time for most users? A few dropped frames right at the start of the video is hard to notice.

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Are most of you using MPC-HC or BE? I just tried BE and couldn't figure out how to get MadVR to work.
Zoom Player here.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:10   #24349  |  Link
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Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
Are most of you using MPC-HC or BE? I just tried BE and couldn't figure out how to get MadVR to work.
Options -> Playback -> Output -> DirectShow Video -> MadVR

If you don't see an entry for madVR, you probably downloaded the 64-bit version by mistake. madVR is 32-bit only.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:27   #24350  |  Link
ryrynz
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
But is that worse then a longer startup time for most users? A few dropped frames right at the start of the video is hard to notice.
Well we do want to avoid dropped frames right? Half a second of longer start up time is hard to notice also.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:35   #24351  |  Link
iSunrise
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But is that worse then a longer startup time for most users? A few dropped frames right at the start of the video is hard to notice.
Indeed, that reason alone is debatable.

However, I found out that when you donīt enable this, I couldnīt view some still images, where I just got a black screen instead. If I enabled that option, madVR then filled up the queues (since itīs a still picture, it doesnīt have consecutive frames) and that solved the problem. That was with 0.87.4, however, and all the subsequent test builds.

Now, with 0.87.5 and after I had changed my queues to higher values I suddenly have a black screen all the time and I am not sure whatīs the problem. Enabling that option suddenly doesnīt help anymore.

Hereīs a test file, which always shows as a black screen for me:
BWRamp.tif

Iīm not sure how to solve this "problem" with 0.87.5, yet. If we can reproduce this, this should maybe be reported as a bug?!

Last edited by iSunrise; 6th March 2014 at 04:37.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:35   #24352  |  Link
MistahBonzai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
Here's the result of R9 290X...

This is the result of upscaling to 1440 with a H.265 encoded video, rendering time is 10-30% longer with bluray, ouch! If you are upscaling to 4k expect the time to be even longer.
I really appreciate the performance data you have captured in an easily to digest form. Your dedication is to be commended regardless of public recognition (or not). Others have attempted to simplify the MadVR option choices based on pure performance (objectivity) but eventually became frustrated with the ongoing complexity (never ending exceptions) of the task, not to mention the subjectivity involved in making those choices.

My next upgrade will be a '4K' display - most likely a Sony 55" XBR-55X850A. I currently am using a Sony KDL 40W3000 (for the past 6 years through out numerous PC upgrades) and have been *very* satisfied by how well it has served as an arms-length 'PC monitor'. I've never viewed 'TV' on it... I firmly believe 4K will be of more use to me than most folks intending to use it for 'entertainment' purposes.

Therefore I view your AMD/MadVR/MPC-HC findings with great interest. Don't get discouraged if you think your hard work is going unrecognized - you are learning a hellava lot about how it all plays together (or doesn't) in your bench-marking exercise. Thanks again :-)

Last edited by MistahBonzai; 6th March 2014 at 04:41.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:42   #24353  |  Link
cyberbeing
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"Delay playback start" unfortunately is not bug free. In the past there have been reports of playback failing to start at all with certain filter combinations, and I even have a couple bugs [1] [2] opened about other quirks with it. This is one of those options which is best left to users to enable themselves, until madshi stabilizes the implementation a bit more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
Hereīs a test file, which always shows as a black screen for me:
BWRamp.tif

Iīm not sure how to solve this "problem" with 0.87.5, yet. If we can reproduce this, this should maybe be reported as a bug?!
No issue here. Are you sure it's not this bug I reported which is causing your issue?

Last edited by cyberbeing; 6th March 2014 at 04:45.
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Old 6th March 2014, 04:54   #24354  |  Link
MistahBonzai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
Now, with 0.87.5 and after I had changed my queues to higher values I suddenly have a black screen all the time and I am not sure whatīs the problem. Enabling that option suddenly doesnīt help anymore.

Hereīs a test file, which always shows as a black screen for me BWRamp.tif

Iīm not sure how to solve this "problem" with 0.87.5, yet. If we can reproduce this, this should maybe be reported as a bug?!
Hmmm... Same here. I was viewing images with MadVR earlier today prior to the upgrade from my 'patched' 87.4 to the 87.5 release. Your image displays when launched in a small window but the screen goes black when going full screen. Also the status text appears very large/low rez in the windowed display. Do you intend to log a bug report or should I?

False alarm!! I had a Avisynth script active in FFdshow as an external filter. Disabling ffdshow (avisynth script processing) fixed the issue. Supported images (including BWRamp.tif) display properly. While on the subject of MadVR image viewing..is there a simple way of incrementing through images in a folder? I googled and came up empty...

Last edited by MistahBonzai; 6th March 2014 at 05:09.
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Old 6th March 2014, 05:12   #24355  |  Link
ryrynz
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"Delay playback start" unfortunately is not bug free. I even have a couple bugs [1] [2] opened about other quirks with it.
Are those bugs still there when tested with the latest versions?
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Old 6th March 2014, 05:35   #24356  |  Link
JonnyRedHed
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I seem to be getting a madvr 0.87.5 crash (it then sends a report - when I can fill out the details before zoom player crashes) and then next time its zoom player that crashes. When I am full screen and click the control bar 'Next track' when at the end of a file. Or use my mouse shortcut button.

Just seems to be whilst in full screen with this new 0.87.5. I'd never seen the madvr crash reporter before today. Very rarely have zoom player crashes, never mind madvr crashes.

Reverting back to default release 0.87.4 fixes the issue.

0.87.5, either clicking next track or letting the video change to the next video on its own whilst in full screen this seems to either crash madvr and brings up the crash reporter, but it then stops the crash reporter as I'm going through its steps, with a zoom player crash. So I rarely get a chance to fill out the madvr crash reporter.

I did lower the cpu queue to 20 and gpu queue to 12 - no effect on the crashing. But reverting to 0.87.4 does fix things as I mentioned.


Zoom Player 8.7 b33
madvr 0.87.5
LAV 0.61.0.0
Win7 SP1 x64
i5 2500k
16 GB ram
NV GTX 670 2GB

Last edited by JonnyRedHed; 6th March 2014 at 06:35. Reason: my cat ate my brain
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Old 6th March 2014, 05:41   #24357  |  Link
MistahBonzai
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Are you sure it's not this bug I reported which is causing your issue?
That 'bug'(?) remains repeatable with madVR v0.87.5.
Configuration:
  1. Win7 (sp1) 64-bit.
  2. i7-3770 64-bit.
  3. HD-7850.
  4. MPC-HC 1.7.3.88.
  5. LAV 0.61.0.0.
  6. madVR v0.87.5.
  7. XySubFilter 3.1.0.682.

Last edited by MistahBonzai; 6th March 2014 at 05:49.
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Old 6th March 2014, 05:48   #24358  |  Link
seiyafan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistahBonzai View Post
I really appreciate the performance data you have captured in an easily to digest form. Your dedication is to be commended regardless of public recognition (or not). Others have attempted to simplify the MadVR option choices based on pure performance (objectivity) but eventually became frustrated with the ongoing complexity (never ending exceptions) of the task, not to mention the subjectivity involved in making those choices.

My next upgrade will be a '4K' display - most likely a Sony 55" XBR-55X850A. I currently am using a Sony KDL 40W3000 (for the past 6 years through out numerous PC upgrades) and have been *very* satisfied by how well it has served as an arms-length 'PC monitor'. I've never viewed 'TV' on it... I firmly believe 4K will be of more use to me than most folks intending to use it for 'entertainment' purposes.

Therefore I view your AMD/MadVR/MPC-HC findings with great interest. Don't get discouraged if you think your hard work is going unrecognized - you are learning a hellava lot about how it all plays together (or doesn't) in your bench-marking exercise. Thanks again :-)
Glad I could help!

Just a word of caution to everyone that no one should view those numbers as absolute, the main purpose was to compare the performance difference between different cards. With the same setting I got different rendering times with H.264, H.265 and bluray videos, sometimes the difference is quite big (like 35%). I think it has to do with encoding but I am not 100% sure.
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Old 6th March 2014, 05:56   #24359  |  Link
MistahBonzai
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Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
...Just a word of caution to everyone that no one should view those numbers as absolute, the main purpose was to compare the performance difference between different cards...
Understood - in the end it's all 'relative'.
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Old 6th March 2014, 06:03   #24360  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
"Delay playback start" unfortunately is not bug free. I even have a couple bugs [1] [2] opened about other quirks with it.
Are those bugs still there when tested with the latest versions?
Hmm... It looks like Issue #5 with DirectShowSource seeking may have been resolved by coincidence in 0.87.5, as it was still reproducible in 0.87.4.

Issue #104 I'm still able to reproduce in 0.87.5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistahBonzai View Post
That 'bug'(?) remains repeatable with madVR v0.87.5.
Since I don't watch any PAL content, I just workaround the problem by setting a special rule to disable Smooth Motion with 25fps, which LAV Filters always reports for still images.

if (srcFPS = 25)

Last edited by cyberbeing; 6th March 2014 at 06:19.
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