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Old 22nd July 2015, 14:13   #32061  |  Link
daert
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I have a problem with MPC-BE and madvr. If I set "treat 25p as 24p" in madvr, display mode won't change to 24p when I open a 25p video: it's stuck at 60p. If I use MPC-HC the issue doesn't appear. I'm using MPC-BE 1.4.5.579 and madvr 0.88.20
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Old 22nd July 2015, 15:07   #32062  |  Link
Akeno
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Originally Posted by daert View Post
I have a problem with MPC-BE and madvr. If I set "treat 25p as 24p" in madvr, display mode won't change to 24p when I open a 25p video: it's stuck at 60p. If I use MPC-HC the issue doesn't appear. I'm using MPC-BE 1.4.5.579 and madvr 0.88.20
That option requires ReClock to speed down the video first. Make sure the PAL speed down option is checked in the ReClock config.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 15:25   #32063  |  Link
daert
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Indeed. PAL speed down is already enabled. In fact, everything is fine with MPC-HC
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Old 22nd July 2015, 16:36   #32064  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Here's one of the images that I was testing with which seemed to show aliasing quite well:I'm not really happy with how that looks using any of the sharpening options, or scaling other than NNEDI3.
Homogeneous black outlines really chew NNEDI3's work, it's indeed a strong contender for anime.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
No, it's got nothing to do with dithering.
I did mean sharpening, I blame the crazy heat

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Yes, might be an interesting test.
Righty, took me a while to find the ideal picture but I think this one works very nicely:

original untouched 1080p BD screenshot(not captured by me):

downscaled to 960*540 in mVR .15 using CR AR LL and monostatic ED2@8bit:

  • in mVR .15:
the untouched 1080p BD capture played in mVR using monostatic ED2@8bit, that's our "ground truth":

sxbr75+SR3@0.41LQ(my favorite)

sxbr75+SR3@0.41HQ

NEDI+SR3@0.41LQ

sxbr75+AS0.5

NNEDI3 for luma+chroma@16 neurons +SR3@0.41LQ

NNEDI3 for luma@32 neurons+J3AR chroma+SR3@0.41LQ

NNEDI3 for luma+chroma@32 neurons

  • in mVR .20:

sxbr75+SR1@0.66LQ

sxbr75+SR1@0.66HQ

sxbr75+SR2@0.66HQ

sxbr75+SR3@0.66HQ

All the pics as a big zip file.

I'm literally tired of all that pixel peeping so I might be completely wrong for all I know but I did run rather extensive comparisons on real world 25p material beforehand and this screenshots galore pretty much confirms all my impressions:

-I believe the blur I'm seeing with HQ Vs LQ SR is very obvious and I don't see how HQ could remotely be considered any closer to the original file
-sxbr75 is very nice, I wish one day I could try 70 or 80
-NEDI got superseded by sxbr75 as it would appear
-my favorite one remains sxbr75+SR3@0.41LQ in mVR .15, now that I see those screenshots some very slight AS on top might be a good idea so I will have to give it a try next time
-screenshots are nice and all but the magic SR does on motion blur makes it look far more natural to me(especially 24/25p) so I'm still very keen on sticking to .15 with 3@0.41LQ if that's my only option
I would gladly(and more than likely will) be proven wrong and I'm here to learn so shoot me now if you must, kthx

Last edited by leeperry; 23rd July 2015 at 02:55.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 17:58   #32065  |  Link
Akeno
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leeperry, taking a look at your examples, I'm still under the impression that HQ is closer to the groundtruth than LQ. While LQ gives a nice impression of the shadows underneath the roof tiles, it thickens the lines everywhere else too much. There's also some strange artifacts around the windows of the closer house. The small black chunks seem to be present in every example you post but LQ turns them into definitive lines.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 18:46   #32066  |  Link
har3inger
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
With regards to what Nev said over on the LAV thread



Can you give us any firm info on this?
This may be GPU/driver specific. The only way to test for yourself is to take two screenshots of the same frame, one with DXVA2 native, one without, and subtract them from each other in photoshop or something.

On my setup, if you compare DXVA2 native and DXVA2-cb, there are definite differences if you subtract the screenshots from each other that are greater than the difference you get from the different dithering pattern. All of these differences are barely visible, as they are under 5/255 luminosity in their intensity.

I'm on an ATI HD 8870 (R9 M270X) paired to an intel HD4000. Catalyst 15.6 beta

Last edited by har3inger; 22nd July 2015 at 19:24.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 22:46   #32067  |  Link
strangeluck
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Also reporting unrealistically low rendering stats in 88.20.
Same here using MPC-HC. Render times are off by a minimum of 20-30ms. I have never had problems with render time display until the most recent round of updates. It seems to give accurate results when playing video on my primary display with the secondary monitor (a 1080p Samsung television) disabled. Playing video on the secondary display always shows render times of 5ms or less which is just entirely incorrect.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 23:17   #32068  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Thanks for that sample, leeperry.
I'm seeing too much aliasing with SuperRes at the balcony railing, even with strength 1 and radius 1.0.
Even NNEDI3 64 doesn't look exactly great here, 256 neurons really improve the image a lot. However, 64 neurons are much more reasonable and still look better than super-xbr (e.g. regarding the antennas).
AS 0.2 UR still makes the image a little sharper without really destroying anything with NNEDI3 64. That's exactly what I meant with "set & forget".

I scaled it to 1080p and compared it with the original, madshi.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 04:34   #32069  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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Im wondering in how far it makes sense to compare different upscaling/downscaling algorythms when the comparison pic has been downscaled/upscaled before. couldnt there be potential interference from the downscaling/upscaling process which has been done before the upscaling/downscaling process? perhaps the outcome would be different in some cases if the first step wasnt done?

so doesnt it make more sense to look at a picture which has only either been upscaled or downscaled and not both?
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Old 23rd July 2015, 04:43   #32070  |  Link
Akeno
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so doesnt it make more sense to look at a picture which has only either been upscaled or downscaled and not both?
If we do that, we get back into subjectivity. What looks best to one will differ from person to person and that is a conversation that won't reach a definitive conclusion.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 05:33   #32071  |  Link
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This may be GPU/driver specific. The only way to test for yourself is to take two screenshots of the same frame, one with DXVA2 native, one without, and subtract them from each other in photoshop or something.
Tested on my Intel HD 4000 with both madVR and MPDN and there's no difference.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 05:36   #32072  |  Link
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Love the comparisons. I guess I'll hold out until I can run SuperRes on top of super-xbr doubling :P
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Old 23rd July 2015, 08:53   #32073  |  Link
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Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
This may be GPU/driver specific. The only way to test for yourself is to take two screenshots of the same frame, one with DXVA2 native, one without, and subtract them from each other in photoshop or something.

On my setup, if you compare DXVA2 native and DXVA2-cb, there are definite differences if you subtract the screenshots from each other that are greater than the difference you get from the different dithering pattern. All of these differences are barely visible, as they are under 5/255 luminosity in their intensity.

I'm on an ATI HD 8870 (R9 M270X) paired to an intel HD4000. Catalyst 15.6 beta

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Tested on my Intel HD 4000 with both madVR and MPDN and there's no difference.
Madshi, looks like there's an issue here. On my 750 Ti there are considerable differences between running LAV in copy-back mode and native DXVA2.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/136044
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Old 23rd July 2015, 09:02   #32074  |  Link
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Madshi, looks like there's an issue here. On my 750 Ti there are considerable differences between running LAV in copy-back mode and native DXVA2.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/136044
Its a known issue, one that cannot be fixed properly (ie. without copy-back), which is why you should use copy-back.
madVR used to have its own copy-back function, but it was removed because LAV is just more efficient at it.

It seems to mostly affect NVIDIA, which is the good news, since copy-back is very efficient on nvidia anyway.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 09:25   #32075  |  Link
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Its a known issue, one that cannot be fixed properly (ie. without copy-back), which is why you should use copy-back.
madVR used to have its own copy-back function, but it was removed because LAV is just more efficient at it.

It seems to mostly affect NVIDIA, which is the good news, since copy-back is very efficient on nvidia anyway.
Thanks, wish I had known this earlier. Not sure why this has really only been made apparent now, it's something that should be in the OP IMO considering the quality difference.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 09:42   #32076  |  Link
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Thanks, wish I had known this earlier. Not sure why this has really only been made apparent now, it's something that should be in the OP IMO considering the quality difference.
Before evaluating the quality, you should also make sure that all trade quality options are off that interact with DXVA in any way. I don't think its usually *that* bad, but maybe I remembered wrong.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 09:50   #32077  |  Link
ryrynz
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Before evaluating the quality, you should also make sure that all trade quality options are off that interact with DXVA in any way. I don't think its usually *that* bad, but maybe I remembered wrong.
All are unticked.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 10:06   #32078  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Its a known issue, one that cannot be fixed properly (ie. without copy-back), which is why you should use copy-back.
madVR used to have its own copy-back function, but it was removed because LAV is just more efficient at it.

It seems to mostly affect NVIDIA, which is the good news, since copy-back is very efficient on nvidia anyway.
Thanks for the explanation!
Those test was done using DXVA native and copyback. What about CUVID? (I've been still using it for a long time.)
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Old 23rd July 2015, 10:16   #32079  |  Link
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CUVID is just the room heating version of copyback.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 10:52   #32080  |  Link
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Yeah I was wondering today when eventually it'll be removed.
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