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Old 3rd May 2009, 11:38   #801  |  Link
Kado
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Will this renderer work in x64?
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Old 3rd May 2009, 11:38   #802  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Oh right, I thought it was just rendering in 10-bit and always ended up as 8-bit for output from a PC no matter what.
I'm not sure what EVR 10bit really does inside. I think it's supposed to actually deliver 10bits to the DAC (when using analog output) or to HDMI (when using HDMI 1.3 DeepColor). But I've no idea if it actually works that way, or if the GPU dumbs it down to 8bit internally somewhere...

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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Do you think that using more bits for processing (32/64-bit FP) and/or linear processing would improve things at all, or is madVR currently as good as it'll get as far as posterisation is concerned?
As long as you don't scale, there won't be any improvement, as far as posterisation is concerned, because madVR is already as good as it gets in that area. It shows exactly that amount of posterisation which is in the source. Not more and not less. The only chance for further improvements would be to either add more dither than you technically need (which would mask posterisation somewhat) or to run a preprocessing algorithm which detecs and removes posterisation from the source.

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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Would enabling the 10-bit output have any effect on the image at the display when madVR is used?
You mean adding 10bit output to madVR? Technically, if it actually worked (which I'm not sure about) it would decrease dithering noise level. I doubt that the difference would be visible. Maybe the image could feel ever so slightly more calm.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 11:40   #803  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Kado View Post
Will this renderer work in x64?
The renderer should already work in x64 OSs, but currently only in 32bit media players. Support for x64 media players may come in a later version, but it's really low priority for me right now...
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Old 3rd May 2009, 12:03   #804  |  Link
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madVR vs EVR CP

Ok, here goes




The file name will say which is which. I won't say it here since it might serve as blind test for some I think it's so obvious though.

The effect is stll there. Personally I would say that it's not due to the scaling. At least not much. From the screenshot, I also notice that EVR CP give a slightly "green"-ish color. Is that one of the thing that madVR fixed? Or my eyes just deceiving me?

Edit: Just notice that it is still not the same frame. It's 4:20 in the morning so I'm going to sleep, if you still want the exact same frame I could do that tomorrow.
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Last edited by Hypernova; 3rd May 2009 at 12:20.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 13:29   #805  |  Link
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Ok, here goes




The file name will say which is which. I won't say it here since it might serve as blind test for some I think it's so obvious though.

The effect is stll there. Personally I would say that it's not due to the scaling. At least not much. From the screenshot, I also notice that EVR CP give a slightly "green"-ish color. Is that one of the thing that madVR fixed? Or my eyes just deceiving me?

Edit: Just notice that it is still not the same frame. It's 4:20 in the morning so I'm going to sleep, if you still want the exact same frame I could do that tomorrow.
LOL on the pic choice, it shows it was late when you picked it

Btw if you toggle evr 10bit you'll notice the color difference, 10bit off is similar/same to madvr and with 10bit enabled on the evr looks more red, less green/yellowish. But which one is more correct I do not know, it would be interesting to know but the red color gets highlighted on evr 10bit so I doubt that's correct.

Last edited by nuhi; 3rd May 2009 at 13:33. Reason: switched evr custom 10bit and madvr 10bit, corrected now.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 14:59   #806  |  Link
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Yada, Yada, Yada, Yada..... When is the next update going to be ???????????

Have a wonderful weekend,

MAK
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Old 3rd May 2009, 17:00   #807  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
From the screenshot, I also notice that EVR CP give a slightly "green"-ish color. Is that one of the thing that madVR fixed? Or my eyes just deceiving me?
The difference is almost too big to be explained by just calculation "exactness". That looks to me as if EVR CP just uses a different color conversion matrix. Maybe you still have some color controls active in your ATI/NVidia control panel?

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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Edit: Just notice that it is still not the same frame. It's 4:20 in the morning so I'm going to sleep, if you still want the exact same frame I could do that tomorrow.
Exact same frame would be nice. And I think I liked the scaled ones more cause the difference was more obvious on a quick check... But you should try to find out why EVR shows such different colors. That looks like wrong settings to me somehow...
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Old 3rd May 2009, 17:09   #808  |  Link
madshi
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madVR 0.9 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* bigger part of initialization is done before playback is allowed to start
* if Direct3D device is lost and can't be recovered, playback is paused
* if paused playback is restarted, madVR tries to recover lost device again
* decoders are now forced to deliver video width which is devidable by 16
* reduced CPU consumption a bit
* changed video -> GPU uploading method -> lower GPU rendering times (?)
* OSD lists texture uploading times again
* OSD now only increases CPU consumption in detailed mode (2x Ctrl+J)
* external shader*.dat files are gone, compiler 41 is now always used
* when final VSync estimate if off a lot, a file "vsync.dat" is created
* fixed: 3dlut colors were ever so slightly incorrect
* fixed: shader math colors were slightly incorrect
Both CPU consumption and GPU rendering times should be down (= better). Could you guys please confirm?

Those of you for which the final refresh rate estimate is off big time, could you please reproduce the problem, and then look into the madVR folder? There should be a file named "VSync.dat" there with detailed VSync data, which will hopefully help me find out what's going wrong on your PCs. Could you please zip and upload the file? Thanks! The file is only created if madVR detects that the final estimate is probably wrong.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 17:40   #809  |  Link
nijiko
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0.9 works smoothly very well.
But there is a problem.
When first time to load a very large file.
It will be black screen for a while. (several seconds)
Stop and restart playing again will fine.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 17:48   #810  |  Link
nijiko
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I just think there is a preload action when starting to load.
But because of no pause, so will skip some seconds.
These seconds will have no pictures so that shows a black screen.
Is it?
Because stop and restart playing (not exit MPC) it will not reload again, it works fine now.
Is it?
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Old 3rd May 2009, 17:49   #811  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nijiko View Post
When first time to load a very large file.
It will be black screen for a while. (several seconds)
Stop and restart playing again will fine.
Hmmmm... Is that with 3dlut activated or deactivated? Try switching 3dlut on/off to see whether that makes any difference?
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Old 3rd May 2009, 17:59   #812  |  Link
nijiko
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Hmmmm... Is that with 3dlut activated or deactivated? Try switching 3dlut on/off to see whether that makes any difference?
With 3dlut activated.
I suggest pause a while waiting for ready to render.Is it OK?
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Old 3rd May 2009, 18:07   #813  |  Link
nijiko
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Newly report:
No this problem with 3dlut deactivated.
And without 3dlut, both CPU consumption and GPU rendering times should be down a bit more!!
Does it mean that being better to not use 3dlut???
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Old 3rd May 2009, 18:22   #814  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR 0.9 released
Both CPU consumption and GPU rendering times should be down (= better). Could you guys please confirm?
For me, GF8600GT 256MB, the rendering times increased by 3 ms. I've tryed with several resamplers and the result is always the same (more 3ms), so I presume that it should be due to the new video uploading method that is taking more 3 ms.
With the CPU consumption, I only see a significative difference with the statistics displayed; if disabled I get the same CPU consumption.
3dlut was disabled; if enabled I get more 1ms of gpu rendering time.

Thanks for the new release.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 18:25   #815  |  Link
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@madshi, Could you edit the first page with information like:
* "Ctrl+J" to toggle OSD
* Information about the different settings

Most of these information are already in the thread but it's easier to regroup them at the same place.

Thanks
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Old 3rd May 2009, 18:34   #816  |  Link
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Interesting... for my SD playback (upscaled to 1080), I'm seeing much better CPU usage (3-5% less than .08) but AVG GPU Rendering is up from ~18ms to ~21ms. Playback is on my secondary monitor @ 24Hz. 3dlut is turned off.

I don't see an appreciable perf. difference with my AVCHD material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Config
XPSP3, HD2600XT, CCC9.4, AMD X2 3.0Ghz, Reclock, MPC-HC, CoreAVC 1.9.5
Dual-Monitors: (Prim) Samsung 60Hz (1280x1024) - (Sec) LG 37 24/60Hz (1080P-TV Levels)
Source material: SD = 23.976@24Hz AVC in MKV, HD = 29.970@60Hz AVCHD in M2TS (1080P)

madVR: PC Levels, 3DLut=OFF, Lanczos4, SoftCubic100
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Old 3rd May 2009, 18:43   #817  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nijiko View Post
With 3dlut activated.
I suggest pause a while waiting for ready to render.Is it OK?
I'm already pausing until the 3dlut is loaded and madVR is ready to go. So I don't understand why audio playback seems to start before video playback for you.

Can anybody else confirm that problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nijiko View Post
And without 3dlut, both CPU consumption and GPU rendering times should be down a bit more!!
Does it mean that being better to not use 3dlut???
What do you mean with "should be down"? Do you mean they are lower? Or do you mean that you think they should be lower than they actually are? I'm not sure...

Using the 3dlut currently only has benefits if you actually use custom 3dlut settings. That may change in the future, or not. I don't know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peuj View Post
Could you edit the first page with information like:
* "Ctrl+J" to toggle OSD
* Information about the different settings
That would make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesgrey3 View Post
For me, GF8600GT 256MB, the rendering times increased by 3 ms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noee View Post
for my SD playback (upscaled to 1080), I'm seeing much better CPU usage (3-5% less than .08) but AVG GPU Rendering is up from ~18ms to ~21ms.
I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

madVR 0.8 did not measure the time needed to upload the textures to the GPU. madVR 0.9 does measure this time and includes it in the GPU rendering statistics. Which means that if you compare madVR 0.8 statistics to madVR 0.9, you have to substract the madVR 0.9 "uploading textures" time from the average GPU rendering time. I'm aware that this is not really intuitive. The problem is that madVR 0.8 simply did not show the complete numbers. However, strange enough, madVR 0.9 shows lower GPU rendering times for me even without doing this math...
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Old 3rd May 2009, 18:47   #818  |  Link
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Well, I just finally jumped to try this thing out. I wanted to report a few items. Tested using HTPC built on:
Intel Core 2 Quad 9400
Sapphire HD 4830 PCIe 512MB DDR3 (CCC 9.4)
2G RAM

OS: Windows XP Pro with Sp3 and latest patches/fixes via Windows Update with March 2009 DirectX.

Player: MPC HC - SVN 1079, Decoder: MPC VC-1 no DXVA, Renderer: madVR 0.9 with default settings

- 1280x720 @ 60Hz - tearing exists and playback is very slightly jerky. Material is 1080, so this is a downscale and may not be relevant?

1920x1080 resolution
--- @30Hz - smoothest playback and no tearing, however, not completely smooth. It's still a bit jerky where VMR and EVR CP in D3D is seemlessly smooth. Some good examples to use are: The opening sequence of Babylon A.D. that zooms in from space to street level, the jerkiness is noticeable on the periphery. It's ever so slight, but noticeable. Another good example of the jerkiness of horizontal and vertical pan shots are in I Am Legend. Between approximately 2:25 to 3:17, especially the overhead of the city for vertical. After that the horizontal (left-to-right pan) of the street level in the Mustang.

--- @60Hz - Smooth like 30Hz but tearing exists

--- @24Hz - Not smooth and tearing. It's pretty much a mess, but that goes for all renderers. I don't know much about this stuff, but it doesn't seem to be a renderer issue?

Please let me know if there's anything specific you want me to test or look for like settings or whatever. Thank you and nice job madshi!
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Old 3rd May 2009, 19:05   #819  |  Link
nijiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm already pausing until the 3dlut is loaded and madVR is ready to go. So I don't understand why audio playback seems to start before video playback for you.

Can anybody else confirm that problem?
Not audio playback before video playback.
Just lost some first seconds of video.
Only in first time to play.
With no exiting MPC, stop and restart to play again will be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
What do you mean with "should be down"? Do you mean they are lower? Or do you mean that you think they should be lower than they actually are? I'm not sure...

Using the 3dlut currently only has benefits if you actually use custom 3dlut settings. That may change in the future, or not. I don't know...

Yes. I mean lower. That fact is lower usage.
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Old 3rd May 2009, 19:20   #820  |  Link
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And another thing. I forgot to say.
madVR can not work with NVidia video decoder (MPEG2).
I confirm it's in YV12 mode.
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