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Old 16th November 2017, 01:59   #1301  |  Link
sheppaul
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to add the possibility to globally move all subtitles a bit more toward the spectator or behind the screen?
Yeah, there was already such a feature for normal 2d text subtitles. But, it did not work for subtitles having 3d depths. Now, it's possible.

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It would be indeed a nice addition to PotPlayer if he could support the 3D depth from external or muxed OFS files. At least, it will be possible to play SBS or T&B files with SRT subtitles and the (more or less) correct depth.
That's exactly what I thought. However, there is one more thing which should be implemented before telling him about the OFS implementation. Potplayer can convert and display normal text subtitles to 3d subtitles having fixed depth but adjustable on the fly.

It works well with 3d mvc media (blu-ray iso/folder, mkv having 3d mvc streams) but re-encoded 3d videos having half resolutions do not work with a default subtitle renderer (overlay type). It should be changed to image type (mixing subtitles to video streams). It is also supported in the player but it is very inconvenient as it requires manual switching and the quality of subtitle rendering is not very good if you have large screens. I think providing the same subtitle rendering with half 3d videos should be done in advance.

Potplayer's developer said it's very complicated and he'd not like messing up the existing codes as it is actually working pretty well. So I'm stuck with the precedent feature which I think is absolutely necessary. As for OFS files, is it possible to mux it in mkv container?

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Old 16th November 2017, 05:31   #1302  |  Link
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Originally Posted by konikpolny View Post
Talking about subtitles, as regards pic based subtitles they are kind of too big for my use and I've always wondered if the players can reduce their size. Do you know if any players provide control over the size of the sup or idx/sub format subtitles? I haven't been able to find ...
Potplayer can do it. It's one of the features I made a feature request ago and fortunately it was implemented. It's somewhere in preferences. By the way, I'm not sure how it'll work for displaying 3d subtitles as my purpose for feature request was to reduce the size of 2d subtitles.

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Old 16th November 2017, 11:08   #1303  |  Link
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Originally Posted by sheppaul View Post
As for OFS files, is it possible to mux it in mkv container?
As far as I know, no. It is certainly possible to add the 3D offsets in SEI messages within the AVC video stream (exactly like they are added to the MVC stream in a 3D BD), but that would require a specific muxer or a tool that can add the SEI messages after the original creation of the h264 or h265 stream, or to modify x264 and x265 to include the possibility to add them directly, when the video is encoded. That seems difficult. But it is already possible to include any file as attachment in the final MKV. Since an OFS file is made of approximately as many bytes as there are frames in the movie, it's a small file that can be loaded entirely in memory when the MKV is opened. But if the offset sequences are not muxed with the video stream, the difficulty will be to stay synchronized when the user seeks somewhere in the movie. The player must know the exact frame number it is playing to pick the right 3D depth, and many DirectShow codecs are not frame accurate. Also, an independent OFS file (included or not in the MKV container) is not suitable for video streaming.

Also, for movies with several different subtitle streams, it will be necessary to imagine a method to link each subtitle stream to its corresponding OFS file. It is easy to imagine a way to do it, for example with a little file describing that, or simply with the order of the subtitle streams matching the order of the OFS files, but there is currently no standard for that. I'm not sure the programmer of a specific player will accept to implement his own method, if it is not widely accepted.

So, I don't know if there are fatal difficulties in implementing the 3D offset sequences for SBS or T&B movies, but IMO it's possible, as long as they are associated with a video format and that can be decoded accurately and a good container. IMO, that should be the case of h264/h265 within a MKV container, but I'm not sure. (It is for sure not possible to do that with an AVI and old codecs like DivX. But who still uses AVI with that obsolete codec for a modern 3D movie?)
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Old 16th November 2017, 13:38   #1304  |  Link
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there is currently no standard for that. I'm not sure the programmer of a specific player will accept to implement his own method, if it is not widely accepted.

So, I don't know if there are fatal difficulties in implementing the 3D offset sequences for SBS or T&B movies, but IMO it's possible, as long as they are associated with a video format and that can be decoded accurately and a good container.
Yeah, you got the point. He does not really like non-standard methods. That's probably the main reason he'd not likely to support it.
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Old 19th November 2017, 17:59   #1305  |  Link
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Thanks sheppaul for the info about PotPlayer being able to change size of the graphic subtitles. Indeed, it can reduce picture subs and it works fine for 2D. The feature is called "Scale image caption" and can be set under the main Subtitles tab in the Preferences.
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Old 20th November 2017, 10:49   #1306  |  Link
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dear all, i've converted 2 movie with this toos, using default parameters, one of this halfsbs movie is perfect, the other one seems to have some disturb on some scenes on background, front detail are perfect, there are some possible parameters to try to change to delete this problem ? seems like that in background i see video without using glasses, like a double image, but the front in same frame is perfect!
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Old 20th November 2017, 14:03   #1307  |  Link
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seems like that in background i see video without using glasses, like a double image, but the front in same frame is perfect!
I'm not sure I understand the problem.

Of course, if you watch the movie with the TV playing it in 3D but without the 3D glasses, you MUST see two slightly different images. You see the image for the left eye + the image for the right eye with your two eyes, and of course that's not how you are supposed to watch a 3D movie.

The objects that appear (with the glasses) approximately at the surface of the screen may give the impression that there is only one image, but when the distance from the screen to the background (or foreground) objects increases, the two images are more distant, and the effect of a double image becomes visible. (The effect is somewhat similar to what you can see when you are severely drunk.) It's caused by the parallax, and it's not only normal, but necessary. You can see exactly the same "double image" effect if you watch the 3D movie in a theater without the glasses.

If what you see when you use the 3D glasses is correct and appears in 3D, that means that everything is normal, and works as expected. You should NEVER watch a 3D movie without the glasses, as that doesn't make sense. (Some TVs have an option to watch the 3D movie in 2D, but in that case, they show you only a single view, and of course the "double image" effect disappears.)
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Old 20th November 2017, 15:04   #1308  |  Link
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Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
I'm not sure I understand the problem.

Of course, if you watch the movie with the TV playing it in 3D but without the 3D glasses, you MUST see two slightly different images. You see the image for the left eye + the image for the right eye with your two eyes, and of course that's not how you are supposed to watch a 3D movie.

The objects that appear (with the glasses) approximately at the surface of the screen may give the impression that there is only one image, but when the distance from the screen to the background (or foreground) objects increases, the two images are more distant, and the effect of a double image becomes visible. (The effect is somewhat similar to what you can see when you are severely drunk.) It's caused by the parallax, and it's not only normal, but necessary. You can see exactly the same "double image" effect if you watch the 3D movie in a theater without the glasses.

If what you see when you use the 3D glasses is correct and appears in 3D, that means that everything is normal, and works as expected. You should NEVER watch a 3D movie without the glasses, as that doesn't make sense. (Some TVs have an option to watch the 3D movie in 2D, but in that case, they show you only a single view, and of course the "double image" effect disappears.)
ok ok, i'll try to explain better my problem, i have 2 movie coded in half-sbs, i watch both movie on my tv with my glasses, one of the two movies views good, in all beautiful 3d scene, i see right the 3d depth in all scenes. Now i want to explain better the problem on other movie, i see on tv with glasses, i see the 3d depth also on this movie, but different from the another one i see on this on background like a 3d double image effect, like i see on tv without glasses, but the strange is that i see only on background this problem, the 3d depth of image is right!
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Old 20th November 2017, 15:30   #1309  |  Link
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i see on this on background like a 3d double image effect, like i see on tv without glasses, but the strange is that i see only on background this problem, the 3d depth of image is right!
Well, in very contrasted images (like when you see a man with black suit in a snowy landscape), the image of the left eye may be seen partially with the right eye, and vice-versa. That unpleasant effect is due to the somewhat bad quality of the 3D equipment, and can be more or less visible. It is called "ghosting". It's not really a problem of the movie, and the 3D encoding made by BD3D2MK3D is not bad. The ghosting effect is only visible because the 3D glasses are unable to filter the two views at 100%. I guess it's what you have experienced.

Of course, a bad 3D source (like most 3D BDs produced in Germany) can also be the culprit. Anyway, in both cases, the problem is also visible when you play the original 3D BD, and is not due to BD3D2MK3D.

What is the movie that causes that problem ? And can you post a SBS image extracted from that movie (preferably one where the problem is really noticeable) on an image sharing site so that I can analyse it ?
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Old 20th November 2017, 15:32   #1310  |  Link
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Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
Well, in very contrasted images (like when you see a man with black suits in a snowy landscape), the image of the left eye may be seen partially with the right eye, and vice-versa. That unpleasant effect is due to the somewhat bad quality of the 3D equipment, and can be more or less visible. It is called "ghosting". It's not really a problem of the movie, and the 3D encoding made by BD3D2MK3D is not bad. The ghosting effect is only visible because the 3D glasses are unable to filter the two views at 100%. I guess it's what you have experienced.

Of course, a bad 3D source (like most 3D BDs produced in Germany) can also be the culprit. Anyway, in both cases, the problem is also visible when you play the original 3D BD, and is not due to BD3D2MK3D.

What is the movie that causes that problem ?
good to know! saw 7 3d italian edition
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Old 20th November 2017, 15:40   #1311  |  Link
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I have not Saw 7, so I can't tell if it's a movie with highly contrasted scenes.

You have replied when I was editing my previous reply, so you have probably net seen my last request:

Can you post a SBS image extracted from that movie (preferably one where the problem is really noticeable) on an image sharing site so that I can analyse it ?
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Old 20th November 2017, 15:45   #1312  |  Link
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I have not Saw 7, so I can't tell if it's a movie with highly contrasted scenes.

You have replied when I was editing my previous reply, so you have probably net seen my last request:

Can you post a SBS image extracted from that movie (preferably one where the problem is really noticeable) on an image sharing site so that I can analyse it ?
sure, but i really don't know how to take the right frame to analyze in scene with problem, can you help me ?
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Old 20th November 2017, 15:50   #1313  |  Link
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No, just select an image from a scene where the problem is really visible.

(P.S.: Please do NOT quote the entire post when you reply to the last post. It's useless and against the Doom9 rules.)
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Old 20th November 2017, 15:55   #1314  |  Link
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ok i'll try to double check scene in those days and take the frame! thanks in advance!
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Old 21st November 2017, 11:43   #1315  |  Link
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BD3D2MK3D donít recognize a 3D MKV SBS

After a convertion of a 3D movie to a 3D MKV SBS file, with BD3D2MK3D, this software donít recognize the 3D MKV SBS file created.
It's seems there isnít a SSIF folder or any Information inside the 3D MKV file to be reconized.

Howhever it's a 3D MKV file.

So it becomes impossible, with this software, reasize a 3D MKV file created by the software itself.

The software say's ďIts seems that the file is not a MKV file created by MakeMKV or it is not in 3D formatĒ

Please I need help how to make BD3D2MK3D recognized a 3D MKV file

?

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Old 21st November 2017, 12:06   #1316  |  Link
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After a convertion of a 3D movie to a 3D MKV SBS file, ...
If you have already a 3D SBS file, why would you need to use BD3D2MK3D to create another 3D SBS MKV file ? That doesn't make sense.

BD3D2MK3D can convert a 3D DB or a 3D MKV with AVC + MVC video streams to 3D SBS MKV. That means that the source material (BD or MKV) must contain the two video streams. The main video stream must be encoded in AVC (aka h264) and the second video stream must be encoded in MVC, exactly like in a 3D BD. You can create a 3D MKV from a 3D BD with MakeMKV. It extracts simply the two video streams (and of course one or more audio and/or subtitle streams) from the BD and includes them in a MKV container. No streams are re-encoded during that operation, and therefore the MKV contains exactly the same video streams than the original 3D BD. That MKV can be converted to SBS, T&B or Frame Sequential by BD3D2MK3D. But if the source MKV contains only a single video stream (encoded in AVC or any other codec), BD3D2MK3D can't convert it, because it is either a monoscopic video or it is a 3D movie that has already been converted to SBS, T&B or FS format, and of course you cannot convert it a second time. (You can however re-encode it if for example you want to reduce its file size or resize the image, but you can do that with any good MVC or HEVC encoder, and it's not the job of BD3D2MK3D.)

The BD3D2MK3D dialog posted above explains how you can convert the original BD3D to the AVC+MVC MKV with MakeMKV. If you do that correctly, the MKV will be accepted by BD3D2MK3D.

[EDIT] I have modified the dialog above to remove the warnings about the old versions of MakeMKV (because the old versions cannot be used any more and I assume that the Left/Right view bug has been fixed) and I have added a short explanation about the necessity to use an AVC+MVC MKV as input, and not a 3D SBS, T&B or FS MKV.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 05:13   #1317  |  Link
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Feature request: AAC downmixing?

Hello...I love this program. I use it to convert my 3D Blu Rays to files that can be watched on an Android device using a 3D viewer.

As such, I'm trying to make the files small. I'm using 720p SBS, which is great. The problem is the AAC quality.

I found the option to set the AAC quality parameter. However, you use -down6. I'd rather use -downDpl (or even -downStereo), because, in this case, there will never been any need for more than two channels.

I jumped into the work directory and re-encoded the audio before calling __ENCODE_3D_LAUNCHER.cmd, but it would be nice if I could choose an option inside of BD3D2MK3D instead.

Thanks!

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Old 22nd November 2017, 10:13   #1318  |  Link
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That seems to be a good addition. I'll do it. It's easy. That option exists already when you use Tools -> Convert audio, but it is not available when building a project.

BTW, is it straightforward to play a SBS movie on an android phone ? Is it sufficient to use a VR adapter ? Or do you need a specific app ?
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Old 22nd November 2017, 15:17   #1319  |  Link
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Well thank you!

I actually am using an older Android device (a Nexus 5). My son likes to watch movies on it. The older 3D adapter is called "Google Cardboard" (although you can get "Cardboard" adapters that are made of plastic and padding). You do have to use a movie player app. We use AAA VR Cinema, and we've also used VR Player, both of which are available free (with ads in the UI) or you can pay for them to remove the ads.

I think that, even if you were using a newer "Daydream" 3D device, you'd have to use a movie player. Something needs to feed the movie through the VR engine and do the image separation, warping, and general UI.

Thanks again!
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Old 22nd November 2017, 20:08   #1320  |  Link
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I did think that a Full-SBS video can be viewed with a simple carton box with 2 lenses, using a technique similar to this but of course with a phone instead of the stereographic photo, and a somewhat more modern look. ;-)

Of course, a video player is necessary, but since the image is already in SBS, there should be no need for an additional 3D processing, and any good player should do the job. Right?

Anyway, I'll check AAA VR Cinema and VR Player, and perhaps I'll buy a VR adapter, if there is one compatible with my Huawei P8 2017. If that works well, I guess that the immersive effect will be much better than with a 3D TV.

Thanks for the thanks. I have already added the 5.1/stereo/ProLogic option in tab 2. I still need to do some other little tweaks, and I'll release a new version of BD3D2MK3D, probably very soon...
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