collection of available AVC custom quant matrices - Page 3

Oline 61 · 11th March 2006, 01:51

I agree with that description 100% kotrtim. I will look at a few more clips with it and report back. I'll also try out those Audionut matrixes, they sound nice.

Oline 61 · 11th March 2006, 02:34

BTW, here is an archive with all the matrices listed in this thread. If you don't want your matrix in this archive, tell me so and I will remove it.
http://home.nc.rr.com/oline61/x264_custom_matrices.7z

I am currently planning to generate several clips designed to test for specific behaviors, and then encode with different quant matrices, and test PSNR and SSIM. What settings should I use to do this?

I don't think --qp or --crf will work because they produce different sizes with different matrices which is no good for SSIM and PSNR testing. Should I do 2-pass or 1-pass ABR? For 2-pass do I need to do a new first pass for each matrix? Should I use slow high quality settings, or faster settings? What bitrates would you like to see represented?

Kostarum Rex Persia · 11th March 2006, 03:06

Sorry for asking that, but I lost my collection of custom matrices. So, I don't know what matrices are used for ultra-low and low bitrates.

Please, tell me.

Oline 61 · 11th March 2006, 03:16

For low bitrates MP4Guy's Low Bitrate v2 and v3.
They are in the archive I posted and in this thread.
Look at the numbers. Bigger numbers = more compressibility. Generally......

kotrtim · 11th March 2006, 09:23

Quote:

For 2-pass do I need to do a new first pass for each matrix?

Yes, akupenguin said we should, but if it is 3 pass, 1st pass can be anything, the 2nd and 3rd has to be the same.... it's very time consuming

Quote:

Should I use slow high quality settings, or faster settings?

The red/brown spot problem can be avoided if you use subme 6 + no fast pskip....but I don't think the "spot" phenomena is gonna happen so often...

Marsu42 · 12th March 2006, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oline 61

BTW, here is an archive with all the matrices listed in this thread.

Thanks a lot for your work gathering the matrices. Since the archive seems to be intended to save the time to search all relevant posts, it would be great if you could also append the target bitrate to the matrices' names in the future, eg. audionut_general.cfg would be something like audionut_general_700-1000.cfg or ..._all. the same suggestion goes for the original developers as well.

I am asking for this because in many posts the bitrate is often not declared at all or only as eg. 'low', which imho can anything from 100 to 1000 or even above. Furthermore, one wondersDue to this, it's quite difficult to try them out, which is not the case with names like "Jawor's 1CD Matrix".

Oline 61 · 13th March 2006, 01:00

Marsu42, I plan to test these matrices at different bitrates and determine their PSNR and SSIM. By objectively determining the best matrices for each bitrate I plan to determine which matrices perform well at which bitrate.

Here are the results for 4000kbit/s. I only included matrices designed for high bitrates. I may add more matrices at this bitrate later. These are just preliminary results, and the commandline settings may be refined later.

*EDIT: Added clip info.*
The clip is from Friday Night Lights. I am using the script that I set up for a 1 DVD5 backup of the movie.

Code:

MPEG2Source("VTS_01_1.d2v")
Telecide(order=1,guide=1,post=0)
Decimate()
ColorMatrix()
LanczosResize(640,480,taps=9)
BlockBuster(method="noise",detail_max=20)
Trim(1030,169045)
Trim(0,1000)

The clip consists of 1000 frames, starting with some text, moving into a shot of clouds rolling across the sky, then various shots of the desert, including low movement stills and pans across the landscape.

Code:

#pass 1
x264 --pass 1 --stats stats.log -B 4000 --subme 1 --me dia --analyse none --cqmfile matrix.cfg --progress --fps 23.976 -o output.264 input.yuv 640x480
#pass 2
x264 --pass 2 --stats stats.log -B 4000 --subme 3 --me hex --analyse all --8x8dct --cqmfile matrix.cfg --progress --fps 23.976 -o output.264 input.yuv 640x480

Here are the results:

Code:

audionut_hr.cfg
Average SSIM= 80.18
PSNR Mean Y:44.478 U:56.815 V:58.696 Avg:45.883 Global:45.565 kb/s:4021.56

eqm_avc_hr.cfg
Average SSIM= 80.41
PSNR Mean Y:44.415 U:56.814 V:58.672 Avg:45.826 Global:45.480 kb/s:4000.45

flat
Average SSIM= 80.83
PSNR Mean Y:44.941 U:56.329 V:58.114 Avg:46.257 Global:45.925 kb/s:4022.82

jvt
Average SSIM= 80.76
PSNR Mean Y:44.581 U:56.905 V:58.775 Avg:45.985 Global:45.685 kb/s:4007.02

soulhunter_6of9.cfg
Average SSIM= 81.11
PSNR Mean Y:44.875 U:56.324 V:58.119 Avg:46.197 Global:45.877 kb/s:4010.98

IgorC · 13th March 2006, 01:55

Seems like for the first time cm (Soulhunter_6of9) has higher SSIM result and only slightly inferior OPSNR. Good.
Who already plaid with cm on 1200-1500 kbit/s ( movie source, not anime) for best SSIM result?

IgorC · 13th March 2006, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotrtim

...So for those who use cqm, subme 6 + no fast pskip is a must, even better if trellis 2 is used

If I'm not mistaking x264 doesn't use fast skip when cm is enable.

Audionut · 14th March 2006, 06:44

@Online 61. IMO, you should be using B-frames.

Sharktooth · 14th March 2006, 14:01

lets be serious... no one encodes at 4mbps with h.264...
sagittaire shown even HD do not need such bitrates...

Soulhunter · 14th March 2006, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

lets be serious... no one encodes at 4mbps with h.264...
sagittaire shown even HD do not need such bitrates...

Hey, I go even higher... ;P

My aim is a PSNR ~50dB (visual lossless)

Bye

Sharktooth · 14th March 2006, 14:50

then use xvid

what you do is like encoding a 640x480 source at 20mpbs with xvid... it's useless, just use MPEG-2...

IgorC · 14th March 2006, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

lets be serious... no one encodes at 4mbps with h.264...
sagittaire shown even HD do not need such bitrates...

for H.264 1280x720 3.8-4.5 Mbit/s is normal bitrate. Less than 3.8 mbit/s the video starts to smooth.

Sirber · 14th March 2006, 14:58

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

4mbps for 640x480

Sharktooth · 14th March 2006, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgorC

for H.264 1280x720 3.8-4.5 Mbit/s is normal bitrate. Less than 3.8 mbit/s the video starts to smooth.

... get the sagittaire encodes :P

however

Quote:

LanczosResize(640,480,taps=9)

4mbps for that is an overkill...

IgorC · 14th March 2006, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

... get the sagittaire encodes :P

however

4mbps for that is an overkill...

And? I saw them. Very smooth. Many details are washed. Those "HD" at 1600 kbit/s? I do 1200-1500 kbit/s for transparent DVD backups.
x.264 is excelent codec but can't do magic.

QT H.264 Baseline Profile +1b (Low complexity) for 1280x720 uses 5-6mbit/s.
I would repeat another time for H.264 MP/HP 3,8-4,5 Mbit/s is a normal bitrate for 1280x720.

Sharktooth · 14th March 2006, 15:27

ok.. but he encoded a 640x480 source at 4mbps....

IgorC · 14th March 2006, 15:31

yes, here I agree . 640x480 4 mbps is even more than enoughl for MPEG-2

*.mp4 guy · 14th March 2006, 16:01

I have encoded movies at ~1500kbps with X264, the encodes have a lot of artifacts, and texture is never kept perfectly. ~3000 kbps is better, but most of the time its still not "Perfect". Theres no harm in trying to get transparent results from X264, and mpeg2 doesn't look transparent on most sources at 4mbps.

11th March 2006, 02:34	#42 \| Link
Oline 61 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 327	BTW, here is an archive with all the matrices listed in this thread. If you don't want your matrix in this archive, tell me so and I will remove it. http://home.nc.rr.com/oline61/x264_custom_matrices.7z I am currently planning to generate several clips designed to test for specific behaviors, and then encode with different quant matrices, and test PSNR and SSIM. What settings should I use to do this? I don't think --qp or --crf will work because they produce different sizes with different matrices which is no good for SSIM and PSNR testing. Should I do 2-pass or 1-pass ABR? For 2-pass do I need to do a new first pass for each matrix? Should I use slow high quality settings, or faster settings? What bitrates would you like to see represented? Last edited by Oline 61; 11th March 2006 at 02:46.

11th March 2006, 03:16	#44 \| Link
Oline 61 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 327	For low bitrates MP4Guy's Low Bitrate v2 and v3. They are in the archive I posted and in this thread. Look at the numbers. Bigger numbers = more compressibility. Generally...... Last edited by Oline 61; 11th March 2006 at 03:21.

14th March 2006, 14:01	#51 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	lets be serious... no one encodes at 4mbps with h.264... sagittaire shown even HD do not need such bitrates... __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

14th March 2006, 14:50	#53 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	then use xvid what you do is like encoding a 640x480 source at 20mpbs with xvid... it's useless, just use MPEG-2... __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!! Last edited by Sharktooth; 14th March 2006 at 14:55.

14th March 2006, 14:58	#55 \| Link
Sirber retired developer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,978	WHAT?!?!?!?!?! 4mbps for 640x480 __________________ Detritus Software

11th March 2006, 01:51	#41 \| Link
Oline 61 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 327	I agree with that description 100% kotrtim. I will look at a few more clips with it and report back. I'll also try out those Audionut matrixes, they sound nice.

11th March 2006, 03:06	#43 \| Link
Kostarum Rex Persia Banned Join Date: May 2005 Location: Serbia Posts: 560	Sorry for asking that, but I lost my collection of custom matrices. So, I don't know what matrices are used for ultra-low and low bitrates. Please, tell me.

13th March 2006, 01:55	#48 \| Link
IgorC Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,315	Seems like for the first time cm (Soulhunter_6of9) has higher SSIM result and only slightly inferior OPSNR. Good. Who already plaid with cm on 1200-1500 kbit/s ( movie source, not anime) for best SSIM result?

14th March 2006, 06:44	#50 \| Link
Audionut Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,281	@Online 61. IMO, you should be using B-frames.

14th March 2006, 15:27	#58 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	ok.. but he encoded a 640x480 source at 4mbps.... __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

14th March 2006, 15:31	#59 \| Link
IgorC Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,315	yes, here I agree . 640x480 4 mbps is even more than enoughl for MPEG-2

14th March 2006, 16:01	#60 \| Link
*.mp4 guy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,348	I have encoded movies at ~1500kbps with X264, the encodes have a lot of artifacts, and texture is never kept perfectly. ~3000 kbps is better, but most of the time its still not "Perfect". Theres no harm in trying to get transparent results from X264, and mpeg2 doesn't look transparent on most sources at 4mbps.