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10th September 2017, 22:25 | #45502 | Link | |
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Not sure what this setting does but if its needed for internal Lumagen processing turning it off is wrong for sure. |
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11th September 2017, 03:50 | #45504 | Link |
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No, anytime processing is done in a higher bit depth dithering should be used when converting (back) to the output bit depth.
It would be better to avoid the second processing step if possible, the Lumagen will mess up madVR's dithering (causing some loss in precision), but it is still better to dither after processing than not. Not dithering simply rounds (or clips!) after processing, which results in the loss of even more precision and madVR's dithering is still damaged because it is the processing itself that damaged it. Two rights do not make a wrong.
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11th September 2017, 04:04 | #45505 | Link |
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Thank you for that information Asmodian. I too thought it would be wrong to have the dithering set to ON in the Lumagen and also be doing it in madvr. Ive been running it "ON" in the Lumagen for all this time and never knew until yesterday when i opened that menu. I turned it off, then today the other guy here said I should have it on, so it went back on....easy to get trapped In here at times...
So I will leave dithering set to OFF in the Lumagen and just use dithering in madvr only, correct? |
11th September 2017, 04:42 | #45507 | Link | |
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I messed up badly if that is what you came away with. Sorry.
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11th September 2017, 05:35 | #45509 | Link | |
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It would be better to avoid the second processing step if possible, the Lumagen will mess up madVR's dithering (causing some loss in precision) I will turn the dithering ON again in the Lumagen in conjunction with madvrs dithering, also ON. |
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11th September 2017, 08:39 | #45510 | Link | |
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If you do any processing, it should apply dithering in the end. But still better to not process at all, then you also don't need any dithering.
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11th September 2017, 11:10 | #45512 | Link | ||||||||||||||||||
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So there are 2 questions to answer: 1) Does your TV handle 23hz/24hz properly? Only your eyes can judge that. Use a video with smooth camera pans to find out. 2) If your TV can't handle 23hz/24hz then there's no question and smooth motion is your best option. Otherwise it's your personal judgement whether smooth motion is an acceptable compromise or not. We can't really decide that for you. Quote:
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The goal of my HDR -> SDR conversion is not to get as near to SDR Blu-Ray as possible, but to provide the best possible image quality. Quote:
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Might be fixed in the next build. If not, please let me know. Quote:
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Maybe these algos could be dumbed down a bit. A certain quality hit would be quite acceptable if that would buy us a big speed improvement. However, we'd need at least a 50x speed improvement to make this viable for 1080p playback. For 3D playback we'd need a 100x speed improvement, for 4K 200x. And that's just for 24p -> 48p, we wouldn't even reach true 60p yet. Quote:
Are you using the "device\display modes\hack Direct3D..." option in madVR? If so, does disabling that one help? Alternatively, you could also try to reduce the number of pre-presented frames and/or the size of the GPU queue, just in case you're running into VRAM trouble. Quote:
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2. Not enough information for me to say anything. Quote:
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Is there a reason you prefer NNEDI3 for SD videos? I believe NGU Anti-Alias Very High should look better than NNEDI3-256 in most situations. Although if you look at only one video/image, there's always a chance that one algo might look better than another. The important thing is to test with various different videos. |
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11th September 2017, 11:28 | #45513 | Link |
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As we all seem to use RGB with madvr, there is something I have been confused about...
Lumagen tells us that they process in 422 and to always use 422 out of the Lumagen regardless of what you input. So I have always used RGB from madvr into the Lumagen Pro and output 422 from the Lumagen. Yet I feel that RGB from madvr > Lumagen > RGB would be more correct. Are there others here using a Lumagen and how do they feel about it, even though "they" always tell us we should use 422 out. Thoughts please on the subject.... I think madshi commented about this once.... Last edited by 70MM; 11th September 2017 at 11:31. |
11th September 2017, 11:38 | #45514 | Link |
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Well, this is really a question you should ask Lumagen. *Why* are they recommending 422 over RGB output? If the reason is that they internally process everything in 422, then it may make sense. But I don't know the exact processing pipeline in the Lumagen. If you tell it to output RGB, how will it internally convert 422 to RGB? Maybe the Lumagen's 422 -> RGB conversion isn't optimal?
Generally, IMHO a high quality external video processor should be doing its internal processing in 12bit+, either in 444 or RGB. IMHO 422 as a processing format is disappointing. E.g. if you run your Xbox, PS3 or HTPC through the Lumagen, a 422 processing pipeline means that you automatically lose half the chroma resolution with every game, your browser, DSLR photos etc. |
11th September 2017, 11:50 | #45515 | Link |
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I think what lumagen says makes sense for video processing, because RGB 4:4:4 input is not "supported" by many displays (especially TV's).
Anyway this is not the personal support thread for @70MM and everything about Lumagen is really off topic here. Feel free to start a new thread and we can talk about it. |
11th September 2017, 13:13 | #45516 | Link | |
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The actual display mode was 3840x2160. I've attached the log file here http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php...51262117668096 |
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11th September 2017, 13:32 | #45517 | Link | |
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Code:
00000338.635 Render needed framerate: 23 00000338.643 Render current display mode, width: 3840, height: 2160, rate: 30, interlaced: - 00000338.646 Render DisplayModeCount: 0 00000338.647 Render IsStereoContent: +, IsStereoPresentation: + 00000338.648 Render we're doing frame packed stereo presentation, so we use 1080p23 display mode 00000338.650 Render matching display mode, width: 1920, height: 1080, rate: 23, interlaced: - 00000343.536 Render started madHcCtrl helper process to restore display mode (3840x2160 30Hz) -> + 00000882.167 Render ChangeDisplaySettingsEx() -> + 00000885.027 Render resulting display mode, width: 1920, height: 1080, rate: 23, interlaced: - [...] 00004790.218 Creator WM_SIZE: 3840, 2160 00004790.223 Creator CQueue::WindowSizeChanged(width: 3840, height: 2160); 00004790.486 Reset Window: 00210504; WindowRect: 0, 0, 3840, 2160; ClientRect: 0, 0, 3840, 2160; ClassName: madVR 00004790.491 Reset ParentWindow: 000D04CE; WindowRect: 0, 0, 1920, 1080; ClientRect: 0, 0, 1920, 1080; ClassName: Kodi [...] 00004798.376 Render display mode: 1920x1080, 23 Hz, progressive, 16 It's Kodi's responsibility to resize the madVR rendering window properly. So it seems to be a Kodi bug to me. |
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11th September 2017, 14:29 | #45518 | Link | |
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11th September 2017, 15:58 | #45519 | Link |
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madshi, you were right. Turning off 3d in the display properties solves the issue. I can play 3D and 2D MKV's no problem and switch between them without issue. This problem only happens when the 3D option in Windows display properties is turned on. Thanks!
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11th September 2017, 17:40 | #45520 | Link |
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Hi guys, i'm getting slight pauses in playback that last for approx 1-2 seconds, it happens once every few minutes.
Madvr 0.91.11 , Jriver Media Player 21, Windows 10, 1080ti - 385.41 This has only started to happen recently but I can't put my finger on whats causing it. I'm using a 3dlut for calibration. Last edited by fluidz; 11th September 2017 at 17:45. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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