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Old 19th July 2013, 21:22   #21  |  Link
vivan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpace View Post
Those two are totally separate things.
Render To Original Video Size makes XySubFilter output subtitles at video resolution instead of using the scaled output resolution.
Use Original Video Size sets the Layout Resolution to use the original video size.
"Render To Original Video Size" just switches from rendering at renderer resolution to selected resolution (video or AR adjusted or custom). At least that's how it works for me.
I think it's better to remove that checkbox and add option "Use Renderer resolution" or something like that to the list instead.

Also looks like I found small bug: if you choose custom resolution, but "Render to original video size" option is disabled then subtitles are stretched to compensate AR of entered resolution.

Last edited by vivan; 19th July 2013 at 21:51.
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Old 19th July 2013, 21:48   #22  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
I can confirm setting RGB output level to PC fixes the opaque box problem for me (260GTX) without having to switch to 10bit image buffer.
As a follow up to that, if I set the RGB output to "auto", then turn off the "optimize subtitle quality for performance instead of quality", the opaque box goes away as well!

@madshi: You should think about renaming that one btw, it is confusing to read, maybe something like "optimize subtitles rendering for performance instead of quality"
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Old 19th July 2013, 22:13   #23  |  Link
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Is there any way to set xySubFilter to render subtitles over black borders added by render? Now, it renders subtitles over image, no matter what size of black borders is. MPC-HC ISR renders subtitles after black borders are added by render.
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Old 19th July 2013, 22:15   #24  |  Link
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@cyberbeing: I thought you will make different threads for xy-vsfilter and XySubFilter. For me those are different things and you should make this clear for end user to avoid confusion. Anyway it doesn't matter as far as you will be able to keep this thread clean and separate problems with xy-vsfilter and XySubFilter.
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Old 19th July 2013, 22:22   #25  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpace View Post
PAR Compensation broke, use Layout Resolution instead (set it to anamorphic-corrected video size).
I don't have any "Layout Resolution" setting anywhere in XYSubFilter 3.1.0.546.
I only see "Renderer Layout Options" with 3 possibilities:
-Use Original Video Size
-Use AR adjusted video size
-Customize..

So...??

Quote:
Those two are totally separate things.
Render To Original Video Size makes XySubFilter output subtitles at video resolution instead of using the scaled output resolution.
Use Original Video Size sets the Layout Resolution to use the original video size.
I understand the theory, I think. Will have to try in real world. ^^;

Quote:
Auto uses the ASS script's YCbCr Matrix flag if it's present and otherwise defaults to using TV.601 (or, for PC-range content, PC.601) YUV values.
Guess chooses the YUV values to use by resolution, although I don't know if it attempts to read the YCbCr Matrix field first.
Alright, thanks for this precision.
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Old 19th July 2013, 22:25   #26  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detmek View Post
Is there any way to set xySubFilter to render subtitles over black borders added by render? Now, it renders subtitles over image, no matter what size of black borders is. MPC-HC ISR renders subtitles after black borders are added by render.
Quoting from the madVR thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabregas View Post
i`ve just installed xysub but i dont know where is the option to put subtitles in the botton black bar on 2.35 movies
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
To-do list. The subtitle interface was explicitly designed to support this, but madVR doesn't yet expose this functionality to users.
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Old 19th July 2013, 22:31   #27  |  Link
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Thanks. I didn't read madVR tread.
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Old 19th July 2013, 23:28   #28  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirlouy View Post
I don't manage to get *.srt subtitles to work.
...
MPC-BE
http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter.../detail?id=156

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirlouy View Post
FYI, I have uninstalled xy-VSFilter in order to have only XySubFilter.
https://github.com/mpc-hc/mpc-hc/pull/97
We are awaiting both MPC-HC & MPC-BE to merge the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
edit: how well threaded is XySubFilter? I'm still having dropped frames on some overstyled subtitles, without my CPU hitting 50% usage. Shouldn't be an I/O problem since I also tested playing back the same video from a RAM disk and it stuttered just as bad. madvr's OSD shows subtitle queue dropping to 0 so XySubFilter should be the one causing it. My CPU is an AMD Phenom II X4 970BE@4GHz.
Did you remember to disable the MPC-HC ISR? Uncheck Playback -> Auto-load subtitles
When right-clicking the MPC-HC window "Subtitles" should be grayed out & inaccessible.

If the high CPU usage persists, uninstall XySubFilter, and install xy-VSFilter 3.0.0.211.
Is performance the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanezhiling View Post
@cyberbeing, why XySubFilter is still in filter chains under such situations?
The graph starts before we know if a Subtitle Consumer like madVR exists or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
Is it possible to make an option for XySubFilter to apply blur to the subtitles before they are rendered on the screen? Possibly with selectable strength.
For example I'd like to have some equivalent to gaussing blur with radius 0.1-0.5 (edit: well, this is for 1080p screen, for bigger screens I probably want more)
Or this is should be request for the consumer?
We were already considering the idea of simulating upscaling blur awhile back. Possibility for the future. This is something which would need to be implemented in the XySubFilter (provider).

F.Y.I. Because of how Blur was originally implemented in VSFilter 2.39, \blur must have a value greater than 0.3 to have an effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
Zoom Player Max
Bugs:
1. The subtitles never display when they are embedded!? (for exemple all the matroska files I tested).
madVR does report "subtitle queue 7-8/8" so I know the filter is connected.
On the property page of xySubFilter, Language is empty and grayed out, like if it wasn't able to load the subtitle track at all.
"Loading when needed" with "External" and "Embedded" checked.
Please see: xysubfilterbug.png
External subtitles are picked up and work correctly.
Zoom Player does not yet support use of XySubFilter with SmartPlay. Disable SmartPlay and embedded subtitles should display properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
2. The "PAR compensation" setting doesn't stick. I chose "Accurate Size", restart playback, and it's reset to "Disabled". (even tried to force automatic_par_compensation to reg_dword value 3, no go)
http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter.../detail?id=155

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
3. What is the purpose (if any) of the option "Render To Original Video Size" when "Use Original Video Size" is selected in the dropdown menu?
VSFilter.dll performs both Layout & Rendering @ Original Video Size
(lower quality, subtitles alpha-blended before resizing)

XySubFilter by default performs Layout @ Original Video Size but and our scale function is used for Rendering @ Output Window Size
(higher quality, subtitles alpha-blended after resizing)

Enabling "Render To Original Video Size" disables our scale function, and enables lower quality VSFilter-like behavior in XySubFilter. There are some people who prefer the appearance of VSFilter-like rendering, since typesetting will usually blend more transparently when subtitle resolution and video resolution matches. If you one of those people who dislike high resolution subtitles on lower resolution video, this option is for you. Otherwise leave it in its default disabled state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
4. What is the difference between "Auto" and "Guess" settings for the YCbCr matrix ?
Setting to anything but "Auto" will break scripts, don't touch it. It exists as an override for script debugging purposes only.

As DarkSpace already mentioned, by default "Auto" will use the YCbCr Matrix value in a ASS script, else if YCbCr Matrix is missing from script TV.601 is used for legacy VSFilter.dll compatibility. This is the behavior you want.

"Guess" is essentially "Guess Matrix by Resolution", which will result in incorrect colors on most scripts.

F.Y.I. For future reference, treat any "Auto" setting in XySubFilter & xy-VSFilter as defaults which should not be changed. Most of the "Auto" settings have adaptive behavior to ensure intended behavior in various different scenarios.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vivan View Post
"Render To Original Video Size" just switches from rendering at renderer resolution to selected resolution (video or AR adjusted or custom). At least that's how it works for me.
No, setting "Render To Original Video Size" will *always* render to original video size.

The Layout Options *never* affect rendering resolution, only how subtitle scripts are scaled to output resolution.

Setting Layout to "Customize" is another debugging setting, which is normally useless. If you have a script authored with advanced typesetting for a 1280x720 video, yet you are using it on a 1920x1080 video, you would set "Customize" to 1280x720 to achieve proper scaling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vivan View Post
Also looks like I found small bug: if you choose custom resolution, but "Render to original video size" option is disabled then subtitles are stretched to compensate AR of entered resolution.
You are misunderstanding and misusing these settings. This isn't a bug, it's working exactly as intended.

XySubFilter does not contain a custom resolution setting, only a custom layout setting. The *only* correct setting for Layout is the original authored video resolution of a script. Setting anything else will result in incorrect scaling behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
As a follow up to that, if I set the RGB output to "auto", then turn off the "optimize subtitle quality for performance instead of quality", the opaque box goes away as well!
Please open a bug on madshi bug tracker about this. This would be a madVR bug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by detmek View Post
Is there any way to set xySubFilter to render subtitles over black borders added by render? Now, it renders subtitles over image, no matter what size of black borders is. MPC-HC ISR renders subtitles after black borders are added by render.
To-do list. You'll need to wait for madVR to implement this, as the Subtitle Consumer needs to initiate requests for such black border rendering.
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Old 19th July 2013, 23:33   #29  |  Link
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And just a reminder to everyone. If you have an actual bug report, please create a new issue on our GoogleCode Issue tracker.
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Old 19th July 2013, 23:39   #30  |  Link
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Styles aren't working for me, are they working for anyone?

Is there a way to block xysubfilter in mpc without setting it to not load subs?
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Old 19th July 2013, 23:47   #31  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Styles aren't working for me, are they working for anyone?
XySubFilter style overrides are working just fine here. What exactly wasn't working for you? You need to edit each style individually, else set "Force Default" to override all styles with the "Global Default".

xy-VSFilter (VSFilter.dll) intentionally does not support style overrides on ASS scripts. This is not a bug. Eventually it will gain a style editor dialog similar to XySubFilter and we'll re-enable this functionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Is there a way to block xysubfilter in mpc without setting it to not load subs?
Not currently.
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Old 20th July 2013, 00:13   #32  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpace View Post
Auto uses the ASS script's YCbCr Matrix flag if it's present and otherwise defaults to using TV.601 (or, for PC-range content, PC.601) YUV values.
Guess chooses the YUV values to use by resolution, although I don't know if it attempts to read the YCbCr Matrix field first.
cyberbeing has already posted the correct description, but just to make sure: if the "YCbCr Matrix" field of an ASS file is missing, it will always report "TV.601", even on PC content. This is to ensure compatibility to "legacy" vsfilter, which always assumes TV.601, too. XySubFilter has no way to discern between full and limited range videos in the first place, because it lacks the ability to read those info from the video stream/splitter and as long as all conversions are done by the consumer it does not even need this feature.
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Old 20th July 2013, 00:14   #33  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Did you remember to disable the MPC-HC ISR? Uncheck Playback -> Auto-load subtitles
When right-clicking the MPC-HC window "Subtitles" should be grayed out & inaccessible.
Yes, it's off.

Quote:
If the high CPU usage persists, uninstall XySubFilter, and install xy-VSFilter 3.0.0.211.
Is performance the same?
No, no, the CPU usage is not high enough! I have over 50% of my CPU resources free, yet both Xy-VSFilter and XySubFilter choke on those subs instead of making use of those free resources. That's my problem. In other words, yes, the bad performance is the same with either of them.
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Old 20th July 2013, 00:29   #34  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
The GeForce 8600GT has alpha blending?
This here is another question I have. When the XySubFilter is installed, looks like this:

http://i.imgur.com/Qr8zLGo.jpg

When the xy-VSFilter looks like this:

http://i.imgur.com/q3XaV74.jpg

It's supposed to be so even with the XySubFilter installed?
What was the problem in these images? Those screenshots seem to be of karaoke effects hardsubbed into the video during encoding.

If the issue is xy-VSFilter loading instead of XySubFilter with madVR, we are awaiting MPC-HC to apply a fix for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
Another thing I noticed was regarding the pin info generated by lav.
...
Pin out information generated is 2048x720. Is that correct?
madVR always requests frame size padded to common texture widths from the video decoder, this is normal.
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Old 20th July 2013, 00:37   #35  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Zoom Player does not yet support use of XySubFilter with SmartPlay. Disable SmartPlay and embedded subtitles should display properly.
Oh damn, so that was it! Didn't occur to me SmartPlay could interfere :S
Quote:
VSFilter.dll performs both Layout & Rendering @ Original Video Size
(lower quality, subtitles alpha-blended before resizing)

XySubFilter by default performs Layout @ Original Video Size but and our scale function is used for Rendering @ Output Window Size
(higher quality, subtitles alpha-blended after resizing)

Enabling "Render To Original Video Size" disables our scale function, and enables lower quality VSFilter-like behavior in XySubFilter. There are some people who prefer the appearance of VSFilter-like rendering, since typesetting will usually blend more transparently when subtitle resolution and video resolution matches. If you one of those people who dislike high resolution subtitles on lower resolution video, this option is for you. Otherwise leave it in its default disabled state.
Great explanation, thank you very much.
Makes me wonder if what I've always wanted in VSFilter is now available by default in xySubFilter?
You say xySub (with "Render To Original Video Size" disabled) now uses an internal scale function for Rendering @ Output Window Size. Would it, as a consequence, also keep subtitles size constant regardless of output window size?
I explain: I use my display for scaling, every media content below 720p, the resolution sent is 1280x720. Anything above 720p, the resolution sent is 1920x1080.
With good old VSFilter, I had to sometimes adjust the font size because of the different media resolution / window size (1280x720 versus 1920x1080).
Could it be that now I only need to set the font size once and it'll work for every scenario?

Quote:
Setting to anything but "Auto" will break scripts, don't touch it. It exists as an override for script debugging purposes only.
As DarkSpace already mentioned, by default "Auto" will use the YCbCr Matrix value in a ASS script, else if YCbCr Matrix is missing from script TV.601 is used for legacy VSFilter.dll compatibility. This is the behavior you want.
Indeed, thanks for confirming

Quote:
F.Y.I. For future reference, treat any "Auto" setting in XySubFilter & xy-VSFilter as defaults which should not be changed. Most of the "Auto" settings have adaptive behavior to ensure intended behavior in various different scenarios.
Understood.
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Last edited by TheShadowRunner; 20th July 2013 at 01:02.
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Old 20th July 2013, 00:51   #36  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
No, no, the CPU usage is not high enough! I have over 50% of my CPU resources free, yet both Xy-VSFilter and XySubFilter choke on those subs instead of making use of those free resources. That's my problem. In other words, yes, the bad performance is the same with either of them.
Oh, that what you meant, lol.

Unfortunately, VSFilter, xy-VSFilter, XySubFilter, and even Libass are all essentially single-threaded subtitle renderers. They will never utilize more than a single CPU core. If you provide a sample script(s) which bottleneck your CPU, we could look into possible optimizations. Otherwise my only recommendation to is to buy Intel the next time you upgrade you PC. When it comes to subtitle rendering, single-thread IPC is king.

I'd also recommend to try setting the madVR CPU queue to much higher value like 64 or even the maximum 128, and see if its enough to get you through these difficult subtitle sections.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 20th July 2013 at 00:54.
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Old 20th July 2013, 01:14   #37  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Unfortunately, VSFilter, xy-VSFilter, XySubFilter, and even Libass are all essentially single-threaded subtitle renderers. They will never utilize more than a single CPU core. If you provide a sample script(s) which bottleneck your CPU, we could look into possible optimizations.
Hmm that's too bad, I was under the impression xy-version was multithreaded. I sent you a PM with the sample(s)

Quote:
Otherwise my only recommendation to is to buy Intel the next time you upgrade you PC. When it comes to subtitle rendering, single-thread IPC is king.
Yes, I'm aware of the massive differences between Intel and AMD single-thread performance, what I didn't know is that it was that bad. If a 4GHz core is struggling with those subs, how can lower end CPUs cope with that @_@

Quote:
I'd also recommend to try setting the madVR CPU queue to much higher value like 64 or even the maximum 128, and see if its enough to get you through these difficult subtitle sections.
64 is quite enough for that sample, I even have 5-11/64 left in my queue after that fragment. Most of other subs only need a queue of 12, so it's really an extreme example.
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Old 20th July 2013, 02:06   #38  |  Link
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You say xySub (with "Render To Original Video Size" disabled) now uses an internal scale function for Rendering @ Output Window Size. Would it, as a consequence, also keep subtitles size constant regardless of output window size?

I explain: I use my display for scaling, every media content below 720p, the resolution sent is 1280x720. Anything above 720p, the resolution sent is 1920x1080.
With good old VSFilter, I had to sometimes adjust the font size because of the different media resolution / window size (1280x720 versus 1920x1080).
Could it be that now I only need to set the font size once and it'll work for every scenario?
Hmm... I'm a bit unclear about your exact situation relates to setting font size?

In order for XySubFilter to scale properly, it needs to know the original authored video resolution of the script. Normally this would be the resolution of video with embedded subtitles, and this is what is used by default. If you upscale the video before madVR, scaling of *.ass scripts will no longer function correctly.

All font sizes, effects, blurs, typesetting, and so on, are scaled to always maintain relative appearance in relationship to the original video resolution. Essentially near-perfect scaling of xy-VSFilter output. The best way to see this effect is to toggle the "Render to Original Video Size" on & off in the middle of playback. Both should look near-identical with the exception of rendering resolution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
Hmm that's too bad, I was under the impression xy-version was multithreaded.
You're not the first person to think that, so I don't blame you.

Eventually we may look to see if there is anything from the dead Threaded-VSFilter project worth salvaging (the developer was optimizing for an AMD Quad-Core CPU nearly identical to yours). Overall, xy-VSFilter surpassed the performance of Threaded-VSFilter a long time ago, even though we are single threaded, but there still may be certain types of bottlenecks where it is faster. Multi-threading is difficult to execute well on ass subtitle scripts, especially since we value maintaining identical output to VSFilter 2.39 for compatibility reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
Yes, I'm aware of the massive differences between Intel and AMD single-thread performance, what I didn't know is that it was that bad. If a 4GHz core is struggling with those subs, how can lower end CPUs cope with that @_@
The difference can be pretty huge nowadays, especially for owners of older AMD CPUs like yours. Unfortunately xy-VSFilter has made some fansubbers a bit more bold and sometimes sloppy about releasing extremely computationally heavy scripts.

[Edit: A quick test shows me that a Intel Ivy Bridge Dual-Core @2.1Ghz offers around the same performance as your AMD PhenomII Quad @4Ghz with XySubFilter/xy-VSFilter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
64 is quite enough for that sample, I even have 5-11/64 left in my queue after that fragment. Most of other subs only need a queue of 12, so it's really an extreme example.
Well that's at least somewhat good news.

Which reminds me, anybody on a 32-bit OS using XySubFilter, do not set madVR's CPU Queue higher than 64.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 20th July 2013 at 02:43.
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Old 20th July 2013, 03:02   #39  |  Link
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As a workaround for users of MPC-BE, if you rename "mpc-be.exe" to "mpc-hc.exe" it will allow XySubFilter to load external subtitles.

This goes for anybody else who renames their MPC-HC executables as well. Currently our workaround in Beta searches explicitly for an application name containing "mpc-hc".
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Old 20th July 2013, 03:44   #40  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Hmm... I'm a bit unclear about your exact situation relates to setting font size?

In order for XySubFilter to scale properly, it needs to know the original authored video resolution of the script. Normally this would be the resolution of video with embedded subtitles, and this is what is used by default. If you upscale the video before madVR, scaling of *.ass scripts will no longer function correctly.

All font sizes, effects, blurs, typesetting, and so on, are scaled to always maintain relative appearance in relationship to the original video resolution. Essentially near-perfect scaling of xy-VSFilter output. The best way to see this effect is to toggle the "Render to Original Video Size" on & off in the middle of playback. Both should look near-identical with the exception of rendering resolution.
Oh sure, sorry, I meant for unstyled subtitles (srt), definitely should have mentionned it. ^^;
I'm looking for good samples, it'll be easier to explain. Will get back to you on this.
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