madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[noee]

Originally Posted by mclingo

....or is it a case that there are still very few users with these variables - AMD RX card + WINDOWS 10 creative + DIRECT3D11 +HDR compatible 4K TV.

So, I don't see that issue, but I'm:
RX560 + Win7Ult + D3D11 + HDR 4K TV

Don't have much beyond a few 4K HDR samples.

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by noee

So, I don't see that issue, but I'm:
RX560 + Win7Ult + D3D11 + HDR 4K TV

Don't have much beyond a few 4K HDR samples.

thanks for your input, it doesnt surprise me its on an issue win 7, if I wasnt a 3d fan i would have stayed with win7 myself but you need win8 minimum for 3d MVC

calibrating madvr for dci-p3 is a good enough workaround for now though.

thanks again.

[Warner306]

What is it that madVR is doing that is correcting your issue? Are you upconverting BT.709 content to DCI-P3? That setting only applies to SDR content. Are you sure there isn't an issue with the way you have calibrated your display. Is your SDR gamut set to "Native" or "Wide" or "Extended" rather than "Auto" or "BT.709"?

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by Warner306

What is it that madVR is doing that is correcting your issue? Are you upconverting BT.709 content to DCI-P3? That setting only applies to SDR content. Are you sure there isn't an issue with the way you have calibrated your display. Is your SDR gamut set to "Native" or "Wide" or "Extended" rather than "Auto" or "BT.709"?

Hi, thanks for your interest in this matter, I know its not an issue with my TV setup as this only happens in MADVR, no issues at all using other renderers, HDR material is also fine so yes its just an issue with SDR material.

The workaround is to enable calibration in MADVR and calibrate to DCI-P3 with pure power curve 2.20.

I also have the issue on my other 4k TV, a 2017 Smasung MU7000 so I know its defo an issue with the PC itself.

The issue also disappears when I disable DIRECT3d11 so I think its something to do with how MADVR/DIRECT3D is communicating with the AMD driver.

[mrmojo666]

Originally Posted by mclingo

Hi, yeah I tried latest driver before I switched back to 18.2.2 so resolve me pc freezing issues.

I'm going to wait until the next driver release and test it again. Its a bit odd we are the only two reporting this or is it a case that there are still very few users with these variables - AMD RX card + WINDOWS 10 creative + DIRECT3D11 +HDR compatible 4K TV.

think so

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by mclingo

The issue also disappears when I disable DIRECT3d11 so I think its something to do with how MADVR/DIRECT3D is communicating with the AMD driver.

What is the gamut set to on your display? Try setting it to "Auto" and then disabling calibration controls in madVR. Does it get any better?

Changing madVR to DCI-P3 suggests your TV is not using proper color management of BT.709 sources, which can result in oversaturated colors if the TV is set to display a wider gamut. Only the gamut is relevant in madVR; the gamma setting is ignored unless gamma processing is used. You are telling madVR to upconvert BT.709 to DCI-P3 and this is fixing your problem.

[mrmojo666]

Originally Posted by Warner306

What is the gamut set to on your display? Try setting it to "Auto" and then disabling calibration controls in madVR. Does it get any better?

Changing madVR to DCI-P3 suggests your TV is not using proper color management of BT.709 sources, which can result in oversaturated colors if the TV is set to display a wider gamut. Only the gamut is relevant in madVR; the gamma setting is ignored unless gamma processing is used. You are telling madVR to upconvert BT.709 to DCI-P3 and this is fixing your problem.

uhmmm.. in my case in windowed mode was not happening...... so how could come that is tv the problem ?

[mclingo]

confident its not the TV, it happens on both my TV's, if it were the TV it should also happen with a none MADVR renderer and they are all fine, dont think I have a gamut setting on my TV either, I have normal and wide gamut but i've tried both, its currently not on wide.

[huhn]

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hd...tent_type.aspx

this can be the issue and yes this can be different just from switching windowed to full screen.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by mclingo

confident its not the TV, it happens on both my TV's, if it were the TV it should also happen with a none MADVR renderer and they are all fine, dont think I have a gamut setting on my TV either, I have normal and wide gamut but i've tried both, its currently not on wide.

Normal is probably BT.709, so you shouldn't get the right colors with DCI-P3. The display must be switching its color management in some way that is screwing up the colors. It seems unlikely madVR is sending the wrong colors to the display. It is doing what you are telling it to. The conversion from Y'CbCr to RGB in any gamut is a standard formula. And I think you are outputting RGB to the display, so the GPU is not changing the output. Something must be going wrong when it reaches the display or the GPU driver is sending the wrong gamut.

The HDMI 1.4 "Content Type" feature could maybe be triggering different color management in the display. Again, the color matrixing math done by madVR wouldn't likely be at fault. I don't think it is that complicated to get proper RGB values from Y'CbCr. Your display is showing incorrect RGB values or it is using the wrong gamut.

Make sure your GPU is set to RGB Full and not Y'CbCr. That conversion done by the GPU could cause your problem if it is not handled correctly. As stated, madVR is known for high-quality Y'CbCr to RGB conversion. It is the least likely part of the chain to screw this up.

[mindz]

Noob question. If a display is not 4:4:4 capable, but all signals that are transmitted in either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 needs to be upsampled by the display to 4:4:4 and then to RGB, how is a display not capable of 4:4:4 able to upsample the signal to ycbcr 4:4:4 and then to RGB?

[huhn]

nearly "every" display is able to accept 4:4:4 and even RGB.
but for i guess performance reasons they always do a down conversation to 4.2:2 or even 4:2:0 and need specail settings to not do that or are incapable of it.

so the reason is processing and the we don't care attitude of TV engineers.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by mindz

Noob question. If a display is not 4:4:4 capable, but all signals that are transmitted in either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 needs to be upsampled by the display to 4:4:4 and then to RGB, how is a display not capable of 4:4:4 able to upsample the signal to ycbcr 4:4:4 and then to RGB?

Usually the limitation comes from a image processing chip that only supports 4:2:2 somewhere in the pipeline. Every TV obviously needs to be able to convert to RGB, because thats what the panels actually display.

[mclingo]

think i'm getting somewhere with this, I just installed a really ancient AMD driver and it fixed it (16.8.1 however before you all tell me its a driver issue, I installed my current driver again and it was still fixed on 18.2.2 which was previously broken, so its driver related but that isnt the full story, could be a driver version had broken something in my setup which the older driver fixed. Colours are now totally fine with calibration off IN MADVR, still dont understand why EVR renderer was outputting correct colours and MADVR not though.

there is a caveat to this though, I tried this driver before and it didnt fix it, however I was using an RX550 then, ive recently upgraded to a an RX460 which is an older generation but faster card.

[theDongerr]

Aloha forum, I have just begun experimenting with HDR->SDR conversion via MadVR and was looking for some pointers to improve performance.

I have been using MadVR for a couple years now in order to scale 1:1 Blu-Ray Rips from 1080p -> 4K and recently have forced all 1080p content to be displayed as 4k60 + MadVR Smooth Motion.

I love the way this looks and honestly could be content with what I am seeing for a long time.

However I am also very interested in playing UHD backups using HDR->SDR conversion. After numerous hours of tinkering with jRiver+Madvr, I finally was able to playback UHD demos at 4k60p RGB 4:4:4 8-bit and the picture. looks. stunning!

It was not easy getting this to work without stutter/choppiness. I had to first disable 'reduce banding effects' and 'reduce ringing effects' in Processing -> Artifact Removal.

Also, the highest setting I could make work in chroma upscaling is "Sharp NGU Low".

I also setup a profile so that if my source material is 4k60p, smooth motion is off. However, and I haven't tested this yet, I would like to use smooth motion with 4k24p material that is played back at 60p... which I'm not sure is doable.

Lastly, and I think this may have a negligible effect. I disable any type of deinterlacing features from Processing->Deinterlacing.

I am currently using a Nvidia GTX 1080 with latest drivers and with the above settings, I can get my render time under 16ms which is enough for stutter-free playback.

Is there anything else that I am missing here or any way I can get better performance out of my GTX 1080? Is NGU Low to resource intensive? Do I need to upgrade to a GTX 1080 Ti?

I'm planning on spending more time experimenting with settings tonight and would appreciate any tips to reduce render time. Also, how can I expand the 'average stats' item on the OSD to show all the processes contributing to my render time?

[Asmodian]

I can use NGU high chroma upscaling, a 3DLUT, smooth motion, and HDR -> SDR when watching UHD on a 4K display. NGU medium chroma upscaling if I want lots of headroom. I do have a Titan XP but I have enough headroom that I would expect NGU low chroma upscaling to run well on a 1080. Actually I would have thought even NGU medium would work.

Are you using D3D11 with present a frame for every v-sync enabled? Try it with and without present a frame for every v-sync.

[theDongerr]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I can use NGU high chroma upscaling, a 3DLUT, smooth motion, and HDR -> SDR when watching UHD on a 4K display. NGU medium chroma upscaling if I want lots of headroom. I do have a Titan XP but I have enough headroom that I would expect NGU low chroma upscaling to run well on a 1080. Actually I would have thought even NGU medium would work.

Are you using D3D11 with present a frame for every v-sync enabled? Try it with and without present a frame for every v-sync.

I also thought that the GTX1080 should be pretty adequate for what I'm trying to do. I'm about to power on all my equipment and give that D3D11 toggle a shot.

A million thankyous!!

[theDongerr]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I can use NGU high chroma upscaling, a 3DLUT, smooth motion, and HDR -> SDR when watching UHD on a 4K display. NGU medium chroma upscaling if I want lots of headroom. I do have a Titan XP but I have enough headroom that I would expect NGU low chroma upscaling to run well on a 1080. Actually I would have thought even NGU medium would work.

Are you using D3D11 with present a frame for every v-sync enabled? Try it with and without present a frame for every v-sync.

Toggling the option you mentioned does not affect my render time. I am noticing dropped frames though, which seems odd if I'm not doing any scaling. Here is a shot of my OSD, maybe you can see something that I don't?

https://postimg.cc/image/630ay9qrb/

[Warner306]

The movie frame rate is 60 fps. That is a very difficult video to render quickly. That's why your stats are suffering.

Almost all UHD movies (not demos) are 24 fps, so you should be able to crank up your settings considerably with real program material until rendering times are 35-37ms, not 16ms.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by mindz

Noob question. If a display is not 4:4:4 capable, but all signals that are transmitted in either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 needs to be upsampled by the display to 4:4:4 and then to RGB, how is a display not capable of 4:4:4 able to upsample the signal to ycbcr 4:4:4 and then to RGB?

I don't know how your display gets from 4:2:2 to RGB, but this helped me understand it: https://www.intersil.com/content/dam...n97/an9717.pdf.

Unless this is the last step in the display's processing, many displays can't keep the signal at 4:4:4 from input to output and have to downconvert to 4:2:2 to save bandwidth.