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Old 22nd April 2018, 04:14   #1  |  Link
~Maidvelia❤~
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709 With 601 Matrix in Vegas

With Chrome's inclusion of color-correct rendering by default as of version 62, it seems like all videos in the browser (both YouTube and mp4 files themselves) are using the 709 color space.

This is making videos for Standard Definition games (such as ones on Wii) have slightly incorrect colors.

Here's how the colors look in Chrome:


The correct colors should look like this:


This is proven by Dolphin Emulator:


So since that is the case, I figured I'd make the colors even more "off" so that when the color-correct rendering by Chrome happens, I get the lighter greens and darker reds look that the game is supposed to have.

I would use the color space conversion shown in the bottom right quadrant of this picture:


The result would be something like this as the colors (I got this from OBS since I can mess with color spaces in there):


I'm assuming that Chrome would then take the overly messed up color scheme and convert it back to this using 709 in the HTML5 player:


Now my question is, how do I make this possible in Vegas? Whenever I mess around with x264 settings it results in me getting the bottom left quadrant (601 with 709 matrix) or the top quadrants (709 with 709/601 with 601) in the bars picture. I want to know how to get 709 with 601 matrix in Vegas since I do not want to use OBS to record SD games, I would rather use the included software with my capture device. I also want to stop using Chrome 61 just to see my videos correctly, and finally update to the latest version.

Any help is appreciated, thank you for reading.
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Last edited by ~Maidvelia❤~; 22nd April 2018 at 05:54.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 16:54   #2  |  Link
poisondeathray
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There used to be a free LUT plugin and some 601<=>709 cube LUT's you could apply. But I think the plugin is a few $ now
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.in...rsion--104869/
https://vision-color.com/products/lutplugin/

Or, on the export side, you could either use debugmode frameserver, or export a lossless intermediate and then use avisynth or vapoursynth to control the conversion

Or, on the import side, use avfs (avisynth virtual frameserver) to import into vegas. But there is significant overhead with this method (slow)

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Old 25th April 2018, 02:58   #3  |  Link
~Maidvelia❤~
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I downloaded the 601vs709luts zip. My version of Vegas seems to have a LUT Filter FX plugin already, I guess it's included by default in 15.

Thank you so much for this information!
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Old 25th April 2018, 03:32   #4  |  Link
poisondeathray
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Yes that's it

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Maidvelia❤~ View Post
Now my question is, how do I make this possible in Vegas? Whenever I mess around with x264 settings it results in me getting the bottom left quadrant (601 with 709 matrix) or the top quadrants (709 with 709/601 with 601) in the bars picture. I want to know how to get 709 with 601 matrix in Vegas
You said you were able to get the top quadrants. You do whatever you did to get the top right. (That's the "correct" version for 709 converted to RGB with a 709 matrix.) Then you apply the "Rec709ToRec601" lut. I don't have your version, but I'm assuming you adjust the strength slider. Zero probably means no effect.

But that's within vegas. To export out of vegas, you would have to export a RGB format to have it look identical as what you "see" in the vegas preview. If you export a YUV format, vegas is going to do some type of RGB=>YUV conversion. It might use 709, it might use 601. It might use something else. This is one of the reasons people use something like avisynth to control these types of conversions
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Old 25th April 2018, 03:59   #5  |  Link
poisondeathray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Maidvelia❤~ View Post
With Chrome's inclusion of color-correct rendering by default as of version 62, it seems like all videos in the browser (both YouTube and mp4 files themselves) are using the 709 color space.
This is a youtube issue. Everything is getting 709 treatment in their HTML5 player. Firefox and Chrome

But locally the MP4 files playback correctly in browser . I verified with testcharts/bars , both SD, HD, 601 and 709



So if you wanted to "trick" youtube into correct SD playback colors, you would need just 709 for SD

But the color will be incorrect if person downloads video, or if youtube fixes it

Another workaround method would be to upscale the video and use 709. Both HD and SD will look correct, and if they download the actual HD video it will be correct
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:31   #6  |  Link
raffriff42
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I stumbled upon a solution - some custom Channel Blend presets (link)


(some color bars)


(BT.709->BT.601: green+ red-)


(BT.601->BT.709: red+ green-)

I can't figure out how to export the presets to file(s) (I'm very new to Vegas), so you'll have to enter them by hand. Here are the numbers from (link) for convenient copying and pasting:
Code:
  Red Prince wrote on 12/14/2016, 4:48 AM 
    my latest 709->601 LUT:
     0.9135,     0.0785804,  0.00791956
    -0.105163,   1.17244,   -0.0672766
     0.00959559, 0.0323044,  0.9581

  Red Prince wrote on 12/14/2016, 10:07 AM 
    And here is my 601->709 matrix:
     1.0865,    -0.072433,  -0.014067
     0.0966428,  0.844833,   0.0585243
    -0.0141401, -0.0277599,  1.0419

Last edited by raffriff42; 25th April 2018 at 04:40.
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Old 25th April 2018, 05:36   #7  |  Link
~Maidvelia❤~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffriff42 View Post
I stumbled upon a solution - some custom Channel Blend presets (link)


(some color bars)


(BT.709->BT.601: green+ red-)


(BT.601->BT.709: red+ green-)

I can't figure out how to export the presets to file(s) (I'm very new to Vegas), so you'll have to enter them by hand. Here are the numbers from (link) for convenient copying and pasting:
Code:
  Red Prince wrote on 12/14/2016, 4:48 AM 
    my latest 709->601 LUT:
     0.9135,     0.0785804,  0.00791956
    -0.105163,   1.17244,   -0.0672766
     0.00959559, 0.0323044,  0.9581

  Red Prince wrote on 12/14/2016, 10:07 AM 
    And here is my 601->709 matrix:
     1.0865,    -0.072433,  -0.014067
     0.0966428,  0.844833,   0.0585243
    -0.0141401, -0.0277599,  1.0419
Tried your suggestion using those exact values with channel blend and got exactly the result I'm looking for.

Also for the thread @poisondeathray linked (happens to be the same one you linked), the final version of the 601 and 709 LUTs ZIP had some .mtx files with those values so I can have those on-hand for safekeeping.

Can't show results, the test video is still processing but it's safe to say this is solved. Thank you all so much for the help!
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