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Old 18th May 2013, 16:34   #18821  |  Link
ryrynz
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Sounds acceptable to me.
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Old 18th May 2013, 17:58   #18822  |  Link
tobindac
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I'm pretty certain "dropped frames" at the very beginning of a video can be ignored unless you're looking at it from a developer's standpoint.

I guess a beast system may avoid those but it's what happens after the 1st second until the end that matters.

I bind a mouse key to toggle the UI and another to clear its history for this reason.

Last edited by tobindac; 18th May 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 19th May 2013, 08:17   #18823  |  Link
oddball
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I'm frequently getting the error 'creating Direct3D device failed (8876087b)'.

Not always though. Seems to be since I changed to having dual monitors + HDMI connected or perhaps the latest Nvidia driver update.
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Old 19th May 2013, 15:45   #18824  |  Link
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with some content (1080p) - my Render buffer drops to 0 - thus causing dropped frames - yet other its at a more healthy 6+

can I check that the Render buffer is GPU related not CPU related ? (I'm trying to work out where my weak link is)

I've had got set Chroma Upscaling to Jinc3 but have dropped to Spline3 which has reduced no. of instances of the buffer dropping to 0 - but not totally eliminated it

CPU is a E7400 overclocked to about 3.5

GPU is a ATI 5670 overclocked to about 900 core, 512MB GDDR5 VRAM

I'm guessing although the CPU is not great - that its the GPU that is not coping ?

I have "smooth motion" enabled, as MadVR seems to do a better job than my TV does with native 24

thanks for any help

Last edited by Buckster; 19th May 2013 at 15:47.
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Old 19th May 2013, 16:38   #18825  |  Link
huhn
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rendering is gpu but normally 1080p is alot faster then 720p or 480p is your tv not 1080p ? did you use dxva ? my 6770 does not enter the high powerstate if dxva is used could be the same with your card too .
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Old 19th May 2013, 17:06   #18826  |  Link
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thanks for reply - I'm not using DXVA (as far as I know)

TV is 1080p and I'm outputting 1080p 60 to the TV

I wonder if its the Smooth Motion causing too much load ?
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Old 20th May 2013, 01:11   #18827  |  Link
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madVR smoothing algorithm is definitely an important extra load. I realized this when I used it along SVP on 1080p (even though on high FPS it's apparently less needed to begin with).

It's interesting that the whole collection of speeding-up options do less than simply turning off madVR's smoothing.

Though something like Jinc 4 on both scaling types might be even heavier.
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Old 20th May 2013, 01:35   #18828  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobindac View Post
madVR smoothing algorithm is definitely an important extra load
Depends on how loaded up you already are, by itself it doesn't use many resources at all. SVP can be quite demanding so too with Jinc scaling.
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Old 20th May 2013, 21:31   #18829  |  Link
turbojet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddball View Post
I'm frequently getting the error 'creating Direct3D device failed (8876087b)'.

Not always though. Seems to be since I changed to having dual monitors + HDMI connected or perhaps the latest Nvidia driver update.
I had the same problem on a secondary display awhile ago. Turns out nvidia driver update was the culprit. Doing an nvidia clean install fixed it. They need to fix their installer.
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Old 20th May 2013, 22:37   #18830  |  Link
JarrettH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamancho View Post
I understand that lower is better but at which point do rendering times become too high?

e.g. rendering time below X is fine, everything above X is bad.
I thought I read somewhere that they should be kept under the movie frame interval
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Old 21st May 2013, 00:19   #18831  |  Link
tobindac
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Is it normal for downscaling to be much more demanding than upscaling on some MPEG-2 1080p/29.97FPS files? Here I can do easily various scaling and other settings of 720p->1600x900 but when it gets to 1080p->1600x900 it becomes much heavier, in a more than exponential manner (think of 20-40% GPU load going to 99%). It doesn't appear to be related to memory use on the GPU since the amount used appears similar. It's not the same on all 1080p. Some are playable. Also I don't know if it's scaling at all that does it or the culprit is somewhere in basic image rendering. Perhaps files with mildly variable or faulty FPS?
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Old 21st May 2013, 12:52   #18832  |  Link
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Whats the default behavior of the presentation queue (FSE mode)? Is it supposed to stay empty all the time?
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Old 21st May 2013, 18:17   #18833  |  Link
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No, ideally it should be full.
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Old 21st May 2013, 20:55   #18834  |  Link
michkrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobindac View Post
Is it normal for downscaling to be much more demanding than upscaling on some MPEG-2 1080p/29.97FPS files? Here I can do easily various scaling and other settings of 720p->1600x900 but when it gets to 1080p->1600x900 it becomes much heavier, in a more than exponential manner (think of 20-40% GPU load going to 99%). It doesn't appear to be related to memory use on the GPU since the amount used appears similar. It's not the same on all 1080p. Some are playable. Also I don't know if it's scaling at all that does it or the culprit is somewhere in basic image rendering. Perhaps files with mildly variable or faulty FPS?
Your first question is a little misleading, since it sounds as if you're up-/down-scaling the same video and get different GPU loads.

The GPU load depends mainly on the size of the source image, size of output image, FPS, and scaling algorithms. Interlaced content also adds to load.
The codec used is also important, since your CPU might not be able to handle it fast enough. With some codecs it might be decoded in hardware (with DXVA/QuickSync/CUVID), which makes them watchable.

Upscaling to some resolution will always be faster than downscaling to given resolution, since you have less input pixels to work with, and the same amount of output pixels. In your case, for 720p vs 1080p, it's ~922k pixels vs ~2074k pixels, so more than twice the number of pixels to process, of course it does not mean twice the load.

As for the core of the problem: for starters try using bilinear scaling (both chroma and image) to check whether it's related to scaling algorithms, also disable smooth motion, if it's on. Also please tell us, which queues are empty, when the problem occurs - press [CTRL] + [J] to show/hide the OSD in madVR.

You mention it happening only on certain 1080p files, do they differ in: codec used? FPS? maybe some are interlaced? Do those files have subtitles? Rarely some malformed subtitles can kill the performance.

Check your CPU load in addition to GPU load. Also please specify what's your hardware (at least CPU and GPU) and software (windows (xp/7/8), player and codecs and whether you use software or hardware decoding). As always try to update your drivers and codecs/player, since it just might be a bug and newer versions are usually better.
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Old 21st May 2013, 22:03   #18835  |  Link
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Unfortunately I don't have the files available here anymore so I can't investigate it thoroughly. I will if it occurs again.
What I can say is that it had embedded and colored subtitles, which might explain it. The codec was MPEG-2 which I doubt was any CPU load. The CPU load was generally very low, even if LAV was instructed to avoid GPU decoding (and of course SVP was disabled). It appears the problem (99% GPU) was somewhere in basic image rendering since it occurred with smoothing disabled and on all types of scaling/downscaling, plus with all performance boost options of madVR and regular GPU memory usage.
The machine is an i7 2630 quad, with an AMD 6570M on 8 64. It can normally play other 1080p even with SVP on, with only madVR's smoothing disabled (not if the FPS is low) (downscaled on monitor). 720p can be normally handled even with smoothing enabled and SVP with Jinc3 chroma and Lanczos 3 image (Jinc 3 both if SVP is off, Jinc4 is its limit). Software versions are new.

Last edited by tobindac; 21st May 2013 at 22:12.
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Old 21st May 2013, 22:29   #18836  |  Link
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No, ideally it should be full.
so I guess that's the reason I was getting those presentation glitches.

I have disabled 'present several frames in advance' in rendering>FSE settings and the glitches are gone but the present queue is also gone.

is there a way I can get present queue to work (settings) or is it a HW problem?
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Old 21st May 2013, 23:07   #18837  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamancho View Post
I have disabled 'present several frames in advance' in rendering>FSE settings and the glitches are gone but the present queue is also gone.

is there a way I can get present queue to work (settings) or is it a HW problem?
Disabling "present several frames in advance" turns off the present queue, you don't need a queue unless you have more than one frame to put in it.

You need to get your rendering times below the movie frame times so the present queue can fill. I am surprised you don't get dropped frames but also cannot keep the present queue full. Performance wise you must be very close to a lot of dropped frames.
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Old 21st May 2013, 23:35   #18838  |  Link
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You need to get your rendering times below the movie frame times so the present queue can fill. I am surprised you don't get dropped frames but also cannot keep the present queue full. Performance wise you must be very close to a lot of dropped frames.
everything I watch is 23.976 fps
movie frame interval 1/23.976 = 0,0417083750417084 or 41.71 ms
my rendering times are never above 40 ms so they are always below the movie frame interval
yet the present queue was almost always at 0-4/4 (it went to 1-4/4 once every 2-3 minutes)
as I mentioned above I only get dropped frames when switching windowed <-> FSE and when resuming from pause
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Old 22nd May 2013, 00:32   #18839  |  Link
Asmodian
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Well if it takes you 38ms to render a frame and the movie frame rate is 41.71ms you should be able to fill the present queue with an extra frame every 10.24 frames. This should allow it to hit 4 frames in the queue within two seconds of starting the video. Of course any small delays that might not show up in the rendering+present duration would cause this extra frame to be used, dropping you back to 0 frames in the queue. I believe there are some fast steps that are not captured in the reported rendering+present duration.

I still think you are right on the edge, if you do not fall off that edge everything is fine but that is why you are seeing 0-4/4 in the present queue.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 01:01   #18840  |  Link
karamancho
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Well if it takes you 38ms to render a frame and the movie frame rate is 41.71ms you should be able to fill the present queue with an extra frame every 10.24 frames. This should allow it to hit 4 frames in the queue within two seconds of starting the video. Of course any small delays that might not show up in the rendering+present duration would cause this extra frame to be used, dropping you back to 0 frames in the queue. I believe there are some fast steps that are not captured in the reported rendering+present duration.
720p videos rendering times go as low as 12 ms yet the present queue is still empty
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