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Old 13th August 2017, 23:46   #3041  |  Link
manolito
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Update the AVStoDVD helper applications

I have been meaning to compile this little list for a long time, here it is finally. It reflects the state for the current release 2.8.7 Alpha 170921, so it will need to be updated regularly.

Since I still use the software on an ancient machine with a non-SSE2 CPU under Windows XP I took special care to point out which updates require newer hardware or software.

Please note that if you want to upgrade you absolutely have to download and use the 32-bit versions of the applications. All 64-bit software cannot be used under AVStoDVD


Quote:
Here is a list of the AVStoDVD helper applications which can be updated to newer versions. I also tested the compatibility with Win XP and with CPUs without SSE2 capabilitiy (Intel Pentium 3 and older AMD Athlons).

According to the "Requirements" section in the A2D help file an SSE2 capable CPU is required, but I found that this is not necessarily true. The only helper software which requires SSE2 at the moment is LAV Filters 0.70.2, and it can easily be replaced by the slightly older version 0.69.0.85.

.NET Framework 2.0 is only necessary for SubtitleCreator. For users who do not need subtitles .NET Framework is not required for using AVStoDVD.

The Java Runtime Environment (JRE) must be installed for BDSup2Sub. The program was last updated in 2013, but it works flawlessly using the current JRE Version 8 Update 144 (32-bit of course).


AviSynth:
Version 2.60 is required. I did not test the current AVS+ versions, someone else will have to do this. The latest AVS+ version should work under Win XP, but it does need an SSE2 capable CPU.

LAV Filters:
The current version 0.70.2 does still work under Win XP, but this might change pretty soon. For a non-SSE2 CPU the nightly build 0.69.0.85 is the latest working version.

AVSMeter:
Starting with version 2.6.3 AVSMeter works (again) with AVStoDVD without any issues.

BatchMux:
Newer versions than version 1.4.1 which is bundled with A2D are NOT compatible.

DGIndex:
The included version 1.58 is the latest one. However there is an ICL build by Groucho2004 which is slightly faster and works well. Download the file "dgmpgdec158_ICL.7z" from here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oxx5cm9hk...SjenHa?dl=0%22
Extract the files from the archive into the "DGIndex" subfolder, the file "DGDecode.dll" must be extracted into the "Lib" subfolder additionally.

FFmpeg:
The included version 2.2.3 is from 2014 and is slowly getting a little old. For the purpose of AVStoDVD it probably has everything it needs, though...
If you want to upgrade to a later version, there are a few things to keep in mind:

Starting with version 3.1.2 the FFmpeg AVS interface has changed. To work with A2D it is necessary to include the folder "...\AVStoDVD\Lib" in your "PATH" environment variable. It is also recommended to include the folder "...\AviSynth\Plugins" in the "PATH" variable.

Current FFmpeg versions do NOT work under Win XP. There are a couple of fairly recent builds by CoRoNe, rogerdpack and Sherpya which do work under Win XP, though.

The latest and highly recommended version which works under Win XP and does not require to modify the "PATH" variable is this one from July 2016 by rogerdpack:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/ffm...e.zip/download

FFMS2 (FFmpegSource):
AVStoDVD comes with the latest ffms2 C-plugin for AVS version 2.23 by qyot27. The latest "official" version is 2.23.1, this version needs an SSE2 capable CPU. I strongly recommend to stick with the included C-plugin version because it is very reliable, the "official" version does not offer any benefits, and upgrading would require to patch the AVStoDVD executable.

One note of caution:
It is NOT recommended to have a different ffms2 version in your "...\AviSynth\Plugins" folder. If you do it is much safer to copy the files ffms2.dll and ffms2.avsi from the AVStoDVD\Lib folder into the AviSynth\Plugins folder.

MediaInfo:
In my experience it is safe to upgrade to the latest MediaInfo.dll file. The current version 17.10 works without issues.

MKVtoolNix:
The only file from the package which is actually used by AVStoDVD is "mkvextract.exe". The current version 18.0.0 works nicely.

Mplex:
AVStoDVD comes with two different Mplex versions, a "normal" version and a version which requires SSE2. In my experience the SSE2 version has no advantages whatsoever, in my tests it was even slower than the normal version. I recommend to leave everything as it is.

SubtitleCreator:
AVStoDVD comes with the latest stable version 2.2. There is a newer release candidate version 2.3 available, but the author stopped working on it in 2008, so I did not test it under A2D.


All other helper applications are current. Most of them are static, i.e. there will probably be no more updates for them.

Comments and corrections welcome...


Cheers
manolito

Last edited by manolito; Yesterday at 14:59.
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Old 14th August 2017, 16:20   #3042  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
AVSMeter:
The current versions are NOT compatible with AVStoDVD (different log file format).
I suppose it's the video frame size formatting that has changed? I can revert this (at least in the log file), no big deal.

Last edited by Groucho2004; 14th August 2017 at 21:05.
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Old 14th August 2017, 20:43   #3043  |  Link
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Sorry I have no idea...

With AVSMeter 2.6.1 I get an error message complaining that the AVSInfo.log file could not be read. No further explanation what exactly caused the error. Using AVSMeter 2.1.3 users never get to see this log file, so there is no way to compare the two versions.

Whatever, it is not worth the trouble to fix this. For AVStoDVD the old version 2.1.3 works nicely, and since the software is small and portable users can easily keep a current version of AVSMeter in a different HDD folder.


Cheers
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Old 19th August 2017, 16:40   #3044  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
With AVSMeter 2.6.1 I get an error message complaining that the AVSInfo.log file could not be read.
It should work again with 2.6.2.
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Old 19th August 2017, 21:49   #3045  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
It should work again with 2.6.2.
Yes it does, thanks a lot...

Just one minor catch:
Older versions of AVSMeter could read the previous INI file and take over the settings to the new INI file. This does not work here. If the older INI file from 2.1.3 is still present in the AVSMeter folder then the new version 2.6.2 will crash. No big deal, I just need to tell users to clean the AVSMeter folder completely before upgrading to the latest version.


Thanks again
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Old 20th August 2017, 18:24   #3046  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
Just one minor catch:
Older versions of AVSMeter could read the previous INI file and take over the settings to the new INI file. This does not work here. If the older INI file from 2.1.3 is still present in the AVSMeter folder then the new version 2.6.2 will crash.
That's a very easy fix (already done for 2.6.3).
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Old 11th September 2017, 20:26   #3047  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
That's a very easy fix (already done for 2.6.3).
Confirmed...
And
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Old 30th September 2017, 17:17   #3048  |  Link
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A new 2.8.7 alpha release is available to download.

Change log (cumulative from 2.8.6):

- Some bugs fixed
- Added support to WebM files (*.webm) as input files, subset of Matroska
- Added warning messages when AVC/AAC title is added and Microsoft DTV-DVD decoders are default codecs
- Added a warning message when input title has a DVD compliant audio track with delay, to force audio re-encode
- Added check of .NET Framework 2 presence in 'Preferences'/'System'/'Software Info'
- Added BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 to improve bitmap-based subs handling (resize and resync). It requires Java Runtime Environment
- Added check of Java Runtime Environment presence in 'Preferences'/'System'/'Software Info'
- Improved support of VobSub subtitles: resize and resync from BD sources is now implemented with BDSup2Sub
- Improved handling of "non-mod4" interlaced sources within the AviSynth script generation routine
- Revised video encoder smart selection rationale: no more HCenc VBR 1-pass for multicore CPUs
- LAV Filters updated to release 0.70.2
- AVSMeter updated to release 2.6.5



Bye
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Old 3rd October 2017, 01:21   #3049  |  Link
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Thanks for the new Alpha...

Did some short tests and found no problems. For the new addition BDSup2Sub I only checked that it runs at all on my ancient computer and that it also works using the current JRE Version 8 Update 144 (32-bit).


Cheers
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Old 3rd October 2017, 13:41   #3050  |  Link
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Hi manolito, thanks for the feedback on the new Alpha.

I'm planning to alter a bit the routine to select the FPS conversion method, specifically for 30p/60p sources.

Currently, if Pulldown, SelectEven, PAL SpeedUp, NTSC SlowDown are not selected/feasible, then MotionProtectedFPS is used by default (with the option for the user to switch to ChangeFPS or ConvertFPS in Preferences section). MotionProtectedFPS does usually its job nicely, but we know it can introduce edge artifacts.

Nowadays many HD/FullHD sources are 30p and, when output is NTSC, probably the best approach could be to drop few frames (from 30 to 29.97) with ChangeFPS instead of applying motion compensation. Same for 60p sources: first SelectEven than ChangeFPS. Instead for PAL output the frames drop approach from 30p could provoke too much jerkiness.

What do you think? (open question to all Doom9 expert users, of course)



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Last edited by MrC; 3rd October 2017 at 13:45.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 23:01   #3051  |  Link
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Hi MrC,
basically I believe that you are absolutely right. My thoughts so far - please keep in mind that I do not know all that much about NTSC...

The MotionProtectedFPS routine is quite deprecated these days. Using MVTools2 the results can be much better, but of course at the cost of a slower speed.

A while ago I stumbled upon a script suggestion by johnmeyer which IMO could beat everything I had seen before. I called it "jm_fps", the name did stick somehow. See here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...39#post1800439

The script defaults work well for most sources except for anime (where you often need a higher block size of 32 and maybe a DCT value of 1). The speed is slower than for MotionProtectedFPS, but still very usable.

There is another approach by MysteryX which is based on this jm_fps script, but adds artifact masking. Still slower, sometimes very useful, sometimes not. I simplified it quite a bit and called it "mx_fps", get it here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...50#post1805050

I also uploaded an ALL In ONE package which you can download from this page.


But still this motion interpolation approach is not for everyone, with some sources it just does not work too well. Another challenge is that today we encounter a lot more different source formats than we did earlier, and getting the best approach to convert these formats to DVD is not easy.

For a 30p source when the target format is NTSC then of course using ChangeFPS would be the preferred choice. If the target format is PAL then the users have to decide if they can live with a lot of dropped frames, or if a motion interpolated conversion is required. The same applies to 60p sources.


Recently here in Germany the switch to DVB-T2 brought some more confusion for me. The video format is now HEVC, it is always progressive at 50 fps. For film sources they just duplicate frames (looks like they first speed up 24fps sources to 25fps and then just duplicate each frame). But for video sources (news, soaps, sports) there are no duplicate frames, the captured clips have 50 unique progressive frames per second. Can we still use SelectEven() for such sources, or is it better to interpolate? And which method is best to convert such sources to 29.97fps for NTSC? Decimate (or convert) to 25p first and then apply NTSC slowdown followed by soft pulldown? Or better interpolate from 50p to 29.97p directly? I have no idea...


Cheers
manolito

Last edited by manolito; 3rd October 2017 at 23:15.
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Old 5th October 2017, 13:04   #3052  |  Link
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Hi manolito,

thanks for the link about the most recent applications of motion interpolation on FPS conversion. I have quickly tested the jm_fps routine and it is very very clean, with acceptable impact on encoding speed. Quite easy to implement into A2D too. I just would find a more "sexy" name, instead of jm_fps.... Do you confirm that fftw3.dll is actually needed only if DCT flag is set to 1? Still not tested mx_fps.

As per the 50p conversion to DVD, if the output is PAL, generally speaking I would go with SelectEven(), it should deliver the smoothest result. If the output is NTSC the decision is much more video content dependant. Will the DVB-T2 standard be @ 50fps in all countries or only in German? If the latter, NTSC output could be irrelevant...



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Last edited by MrC; 5th October 2017 at 13:53. Reason: Revised comment on encoding speed of jm_fps
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Old 5th October 2017, 15:48   #3053  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
I just would find a more "sexy" name, instead of jm_fps.... Do you confirm that fftw3.dll is actually needed only if DCT flag is set to 1? Still not tested mx_fps.
For a sexier name I am open to suggestions...
It's just that a couple of other folks also have adopted this name, it might get confusing to rename the script now.

fftw3.dll is not needed when DCT is not used (DCT=0), which is the default. Usually DCT=0 works fine, but for some rare (mostly anime) sources DCT=1 gives a much better quality, but at a very very low speed.

The jm_fps script only exposes the framerate to keep it as simple as possible. Maybe I should change the interface to also expose the block size and DCT. These 2 params are the ones a user wants to play with for difficult sources. But this might be beyond the scope of A2D...

Another thing you want to think about when integrating this into A2D:
For most helper plugins there are "modernized" versions (mostly written by pinterf) which add additional features like new colorspaces, high bitdepth and MT support. All these newer versions require SSE2 so they will not work on my computer. I also find them a little unstable, they are work in progress. The AIO package for mx_fps which I linked to contains older but stable versions of these plugins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
As per the 50p conversion to DVD, if the output is PAL, generally speaking I would go with SelectEven(), it should deliver the smoothest result. If the output is NTSC the decision is much more video content dependant. Will the DVB-T2 standard be @ 50fps in all countries or only in German? If the latter, NTSC output could be irrelevant...
I believe that DVB-T2 will be 50fps only in PAL countries. I really do not like the fact that each European country now uses its own flavor of the standard. Germany was very late to introduce DVB-T2 so they figured to push ahead and use HEVC video and EAC3 and/or AAC-LATM audio. It took me a long time to establish a workflow for my conversions to AVC or DVD which keeps audio in sync.


Cheers
manolito

Last edited by manolito; 7th October 2017 at 17:07.
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Old 7th October 2017, 16:10   #3054  |  Link
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Rename to MCJMFPS (Motion Compensation John Meyer FPS)? Not so sexier, but more "impressive"... and "expressive"...

About the need of fftw3.dll, since it was not present in my system, I did some tests, and, DCT=0 does not require it. Thus I would update the avsi info section accordingly. And maybe add the DCT flag to the MCJMFPS function. What do you think?

Another small clue when loading RemoveGrain. RemoveGrain.dll needs MSVCR71.DLL in System32/Syswow64, while the monolithic build RemoveGrainS.dll works alone.

In terms of speed, from few 1080p@60 to PAL conversions, I would say that jm_fps (DCT=0) is 1/3 than MotionProtectedFPS and 1/5 than ChangeFPS. What about mx_fps with defaults params? Even slower than jm_fps?



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Old 7th October 2017, 19:35   #3055  |  Link
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Quote:
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I did some tests, and, DCT=0 does not require it.
Yes of course, just noticed that my previous post had it the other way around. Getting old...

I would still recommend to copy fftw3.dll into a system folder because for some sources (anime) DCT=0 causes bad artifacts. MysteryX even changed his "normal" preset from DCT=0 to DCT=4 in the latest version of his "FrameRateConverter" plugin.

If you want to have a look at this latest version, see here:
https://github.com/mysteryx93/FrameR...eases/tag/v1.2
My mx_fps version has many presets removed, all the debug code is gone, I made it compatible with older versions of MaskTools and MVTools, and the user interface exports only the most important parameters (MysteryX hates me for doing this).

And yes, mx_fps with default parameters is a little bit slower than jm_fps, simply because of the added artifact masking. In most of my tests I found that jm_fps is all I need, but this probably is different for different sources and different users.

The mx_fps version I linked to uses an additional DLL which can build a "stripe mask". This DLL needs SSE2, so I do have an alternative version which has the stripe mask feature removed. Not a big loss, this feature only helps in rare cases IMO.

Meanwhile I updated jm_fps so now it has the two additional parameters "BlkSize" and "Dct". BlkSize can only be 8, 16 or 32. For the possible Dct values see the MVTools documentation. The most useful values are 0, 1 and 4.


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Old 10th November 2017, 22:18   #3056  |  Link
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AVStoDVD release 2.8.7 Alpha 171109 is out

Change log (cumulative from 2.8.6):

- Added AviSynth plugin DSS2mod to replace DirectShowSource for video frame serving in 'A2DSource.avsi' script
- Added support to WebM files (*.webm) as input files, subset of Matroska
- Added warning messages when AVC/AAC title is added and Microsoft DTV-DVD decoders are default codecs
- Added a warning message when input title has a DVD compliant audio track with delay, to force audio re-encode
- Added check of .NET Framework 2 presence in 'Preferences'/'System'/'Software Info'
- Added BDSup2Sub 5.1.2 to improve bitmap-based subs handling (resize and resync). It requires Java Runtime Environment
- Added check of Java Runtime Environment presence in 'Preferences'/'System'/'Software Info'
- Added 'Smart Selection' option to 'Preferences'/'AviSynth'/'Hard FrameRate Conversion' option (see Help section for more details)
- Added AviSynth script 'MCJMFPS.avsi' for hard fps conversions (thanks to johnmeier and manolito from doom9)
- Dropped AviSynth script 'MotionProtectedFPS.avsi' for hard fps conversions, mainly due to edge artifacts
- Revised other 'Preferences'/'AviSynth'/'Hard FrameRate Conversion' option labels
- Revised video encoder smart selection rationale: no more HCenc VBR 1-pass for multicore CPUs
- Improved support of VobSub subtitles: resize and resync from BD sources is now implemented with BDSup2Sub
- Improved handling of "non-mod4" interlaced sources within the AviSynth script generation routine
- Spun off Preferred DirectShow Codecs Tool in a separate executable file 'A2DCodecs.exe'
- Removed 'Execute AVStoDVD with Elevated Privileges' option in 'Preferences'/'Misc'
- LAV Filters updated to release 0.70.2
- AVSMeter updated to release 2.6.5

Bye

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Old 11th November 2017, 01:06   #3057  |  Link
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Thanks for the new build...

Did a couple of short test conversions, no problems. The only thing I found is that
Quote:
- Spun off Preferred DirectShow Codecs Tool in a separate executable file 'A2DCodecs.exe'
this new separate A2DCodecs.exe does not (yet) use the translated strings from the language files...


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Old 12th November 2017, 11:35   #3058  |  Link
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Yes, you are right, I still have to implement the language customization into the new A2DCodecs tool. In the ToDo list before going final with 2.8.7



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