Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st February 2016, 01:30   #36281  |  Link
thewildsun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDisk80 View Post
I have the same problem if I use MPC-BE with internal filters.
But if I use MPC-BE with LAV filters the problem goes away.

Just tested and it's the same problem also with the latest madVR version.
I have the same issue in PotPlayer and Windows 10. It doesn't make a difference if I use the latest LAV nightlies or PotPlayer's internal decoders. The only way I've been able to work around this issue is to uncheck D3D11 in madvr. Has anyone found a way to avoid the issue while keeping D3D11?
thewildsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 03:06   #36282  |  Link
CarlosCaco
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brasil, SP, São Paulo
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Fellows I have to express my findings.
Super-xbr 150 does wonders to Chroma, it makes the very lossy 4:2:0 appear as though it is 4:4:4.
Reconstruction (sharp/placebo) does something very similar but a lot harder on the gpu than super-xbr.
What a coincidence, I was messing with the configuration and tried the placebo and sharp, was very very clear the diference from soft, só i tried xbr on 150 because performance hit and achieve great results, so i came to the fórum and reads your post, have the same finding! Great!

By the Way madshi thanks for the great improvements on madvr

Ssim 2d is detailed clean sharp a great addition to the renderer
Great job!

B
__________________
Desktop, i5 2500, 8GB, N570 GTX TF III PE/OC
Asus X555LF, i7-5500U, 6GB Ram, Nvidia 930m/HD 5500
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
CarlosCaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 03:41   #36283  |  Link
JarrettH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 860
Doesn't reconstruction sharp and placebo create a green halo for you guys? It's not subtle. Soft is the only choice for me.
JarrettH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 04:04   #36284  |  Link
CarlosCaco
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brasil, SP, São Paulo
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Doesn't reconstruction sharp and placebo create a green halo for you guys? It's not subtle. Soft is the only choice for me.
I don't see any green halo...

Madshi there is a way to reduce the perfomance hit on reconstrution placebo and sharp?
__________________
Desktop, i5 2500, 8GB, N570 GTX TF III PE/OC
Asus X555LF, i7-5500U, 6GB Ram, Nvidia 930m/HD 5500
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
CarlosCaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 06:15   #36285  |  Link
hu1kamania
Registered User
 
hu1kamania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Doesn't reconstruction sharp and placebo create a green halo for you guys? It's not subtle. Soft is the only choice for me.
I definitely see ringing with reconstruction and sxbr.

I find nnedi3 to be the sharpest, and it's comparable to the performance hit taken by reconstruction sharp AR and placebo AR.
hu1kamania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 06:45   #36286  |  Link
JarrettH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 860
And by halo, I mean ringing. When I was watching an episode of Family Guy it was quite apparent. Basically any cartoons. The ringing happened to look like an opposing colour
JarrettH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 09:27   #36287  |  Link
Uoppi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
And by halo, I mean ringing. When I was watching an episode of Family Guy it was quite apparent. Basically any cartoons. The ringing happened to look like an opposing colour
So if NNEDI3 is too taxing, would you say Jinc AR is the next best option for chroma?

Currently, I use reconstruction soft (previously I used Jinc AR) for chroma when NNEDI3 can't be used. I'm seeing ringing in some cartoons too but not sure if it's just the shitty SD source.
Uoppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 09:52   #36288  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Fellows I have to express my findings.
Super-xbr 150 does wonders to Chroma, it makes the very lossy 4:2:0 appear as though it is 4:4:4.
Reconstruction (sharp/placebo) does something very similar but a lot harder on the gpu than super-xbr.
Are you saying Super-XBR 150 gives a better result than NNEDI3 32? Is this with bluray?
__________________
Win11 Pro x64 b23H2
Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33
madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC
Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 11:22   #36289  |  Link
James Freeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Are you saying Super-XBR 150 gives a better result than NNEDI3 32? Is this with bluray?
I painted a test pattern with thin and thick lines of blue and red circles in 4:4:4.
Then video captured the screen with CamStudio (screen recording software).
Then compressed the RGB (4:4:4) video through x264 to YCbCr 4:2:0 lossless.

I simply compared the original 4:4:4 video with the 4:2:0 video and chose a chrome upscaler which looks closest to the original 4:4:4 video.

To my eyes Super-XBR 150 almost recreates the thin chroma data without touching much the thick circles.
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410.
James Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 11:33   #36290  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Are you saying Super-XBR 150 gives a better result than NNEDI3 32? Is this with bluray?
All neuron counts with NNEDI3 for chroma look basically identical. It's pretty much a waste using more than 16 neurons on it for chroma IMO as
I Rolled a 16 neurons screenshot and a 256 neuron screenshot back and forward and I can't tell the difference viewing it 1 foot away.

I've noticed that when anti-ringing is enabled with super-xbr and to a lesser degree Jinc (both with AR enabled and not along with some other scalers) can bring green tinges and possibly other colors if the source white contains some inside, which isn't ideal. This is only noticeable upon close inspection however.

The below screenshot comparison shows how bad this can be but you'd be hard pressed to notice it while watching.

super-xbr 150 vs super-xbr 150 AR

Also for comparison NNEDi3-16 taps vs Reconstruction sharp

I'm actually really liking super-xbr 150 for chroma... I wonder if it'd be possible to make a combination of it and reconstruction?
So it looks like I've got a new preference for chroma..

James can you share your videos? Thanks for testing it BTW, I wouldn't have considered it useful for chroma if you hadn't mentioned it.

Last edited by ryrynz; 21st February 2016 at 12:19.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 12:37   #36291  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
I painted a test pattern with thin and thick lines of blue and red circles in 4:4:4.
Then video captured the screen with CamStudio (screen recording software).
Then compressed the RGB (4:4:4) video through x264 to YCbCr 4:2:0 lossless.

I simply compared the original 4:4:4 video with the 4:2:0 video and chose a chrome upscaler which looks closest to the original 4:4:4 video.

To my eyes Super-XBR 150 almost recreates the thin chroma data without touching much the thick circles.
Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Do you notice an improvement compared to NNEDI3 with real content, especially bluray chroma upscaling?
__________________
Win11 Pro x64 b23H2
Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33
madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC
Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 13:02   #36292  |  Link
l0rdraiden
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 16
I'm using madVr and I have like 100 presentations glitches or more per second (no dropped frames)
Where is the issue?
I have tried everything, I have used the SVP4 installer, the KCP installer, I have installed and configure everything manually, I have change all the imaginable settings in madvr, I have tried with MPC BE/HC, I have spend hours in looking for a solution in google and still i have tons of presentation glitches despite I can not notice any degradation in the video.

I'm on win10 x64 i54670k and a raedon HD 7970 with latest version of the video drivers Crimson hotfix 1.1 (same issue with the stable version). I didn't have this issue on win 8.1 as far as I can remember.

Please can someone help me to troubleshot this problem?

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by l0rdraiden; 21st February 2016 at 13:09.
l0rdraiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 13:06   #36293  |  Link
QBhd
QB the Slayer
 
QBhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
I painted a test pattern with thin and thick lines of blue and red circles in 4:4:4.
Then video captured the screen with CamStudio (screen recording software).
Then compressed the RGB (4:4:4) video through x264 to YCbCr 4:2:0 lossless.

I simply compared the original 4:4:4 video with the 4:2:0 video and chose a chrome upscaler which looks closest to the original 4:4:4 video.

To my eyes Super-XBR 150 almost recreates the thin chroma data without touching much the thick circles.
Is this S-XBR 150 AR for chroma? or just plain S-XBR 150 for chroma? Is ask this, because on ryrynz's screenshot comparisons AR looks a little nasty.

QB
__________________
QBhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 13:23   #36294  |  Link
chros
Registered User
 
chros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I've noticed that when anti-ringing is enabled with super-xbr and to a lesser degree Jinc (both with AR enabled and not along with some other scalers) can bring green tinges and possibly other colors if the source white contains some inside, which isn't ideal. This is only noticeable upon close inspection however.
Interesting, thanks. Can you make 1 more test with the same image using Jinc/AR? Thanks
__________________
Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v398.18),Win10 LTSC 1809,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED77G2(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz) | madvr config
chros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 13:35   #36295  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
All neuron counts with NNEDI3 for chroma look basically identical. It's pretty much a waste using more than 16 neurons on it for chroma IMO as
I Rolled a 16 neurons screenshot and a 256 neuron screenshot back and forward and I can't tell the difference viewing it 1 foot away.

I've noticed that when anti-ringing is enabled with super-xbr and to a lesser degree Jinc (both with AR enabled and not along with some other scalers) can bring green tinges and possibly other colors if the source white contains some inside, which isn't ideal. This is only noticeable upon close inspection however.

The below screenshot comparison shows how bad this can be but you'd be hard pressed to notice it while watching.

super-xbr 150 vs super-xbr 150 AR

Also for comparison NNEDi3-16 taps vs Reconstruction sharp

I'm actually really liking super-xbr 150 for chroma... I wonder if it'd be possible to make a combination of it and reconstruction?
So it looks like I've got a new preference for chroma..

James can you share your videos? Thanks for testing it BTW, I wouldn't have considered it useful for chroma if you hadn't mentioned it.
Thanks, I use NNEDI3 32 because I have the power to spare without raising fan noise. At 64, it raises the fan noise significantly for no visible improvements.

I kept 32 because I read a while ago that only 16 could be worse. I'm so far from maxing the CPU/GPU with 32 that really it doesn't make any difference to keep 32.

In any case, I'm going to try Super XBR 150 for chroma. No AR I guess given the artifacts with AR.
__________________
Win11 Pro x64 b23H2
Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33
madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC
Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 14:02   #36296  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
this shows the color boosting from reconstruction and the ringing i reported some weeks ago.

super XBR 150 can go wrong. super XBR 75was the only save choice i found.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 14:27   #36297  |  Link
tObber166
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Hmm, something's wrong with DXVA Upscale colors

DXVA vs Spline
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162815


DXVA vs Jinc
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/162814


It seems to only affect upscale, not DXVA downscale.
Anyone else who experienced this?


Using madvr 0.90.10
Nvidia 361.91

Last edited by tObber166; 21st February 2016 at 14:31.
tObber166 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 14:45   #36298  |  Link
markanini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this shows the color boosting from reconstruction and the ringing i reported some weeks ago.

super XBR 150 can go wrong. super XBR 75was the only save choice i found.
How does superXBR75 compare to reconstruction?
markanini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 15:11   #36299  |  Link
Unr3aL
Registered User
 
Unr3aL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by l0rdraiden View Post
I'm using madVr and I have like 100 presentations glitches or more per second (no dropped frames)
Where is the issue?
I have tried everything, I have used the SVP4 installer, the KCP installer, I have installed and configure everything manually, I have change all the imaginable settings in madvr, I have tried with MPC BE/HC, I have spend hours in looking for a solution in google and still i have tons of presentation glitches despite I can not notice any degradation in the video.

I'm on win10 x64 i54670k and a raedon HD 7970 with latest version of the video drivers Crimson hotfix 1.1 (same issue with the stable version). I didn't have this issue on win 8.1 as far as I can remember.

Please can someone help me to troubleshot this problem?

Thanks in advance.
Are you, by any chance, running your screen at 120Hz or something? If yes try to use 60 Hz and see if that works...

MadVR never used to play nice with 120Hz in my case.

Greetz, Unr3aL67
Unr3aL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 16:46   #36300  |  Link
Werewolfy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 137
@madshi

First, I'd like to thank you and Shiandow for SSIM downscaling. I've never been happy with downscaling in the past, always found it too blurry and now it's sharp and natural I don't agree with some statements that it looks artifical, it definitely doesn't.

I spent a long time playing with your upscaling refinement options but I can't find a correct setting for every contents. I admit that I'm not a fan of sharpening filters, it always sharpens the flaws in the picture (even if your edge enhancement is the best I've seen!) and the only one I can use is the Reality Creation from Sony. The thin edges option is quite good too on DVD anime but I don't want it on movies so it's still not a set and forget setting.

I have a question. I see that there is an option to move the subtitles. Would it be possible to allow the user to change the color and the font too? I know it's easy with .srt files but I can't find a way to do it with DVD and Blu-Ray subtitles. I found that your option to move the subtitles works with Blu-Ray so I immediately thought to ask you if it would be possible. It's not just a cosmetic change, it allows the local dimming on Edge Led not to get very bright when subtitles are displayed. I also have a simulation of HDR on my display called X-tended Dynamic range and it works wonderfully... but not with white bright subtitles. Dark yellow subtitles are really better with my TV.
__________________
Windows 8.1 and 10 x64 - Intel Core i5-4670K (4.2 GHz) - 8 GB DDR3 - MSI Geforce GTX 1080 8 GB - Sony KD-55A1 - Denon AVR-X3600H
Werewolfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.