madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[leeperry]

especially when everyone hates dolby because they basically sell a black box nobody can look into, not gunna happen.

[d3rd3vil]

Originally Posted by el Filou

Mate, of your 32 posts on this forum, most of them are you repeatedly asking for ETAs for Dolby Vision support in various software. Do you own Dolby shares or something? Are you really in such a hurry? Support won't come sooner the more you bother devs about it, you know.

Thats EXACTLY the opposite of what I am thinking. You gotta ask and hurry people in every forum around the world so sth. MIGHT happen in the next few months otherwise NOTHING will happen. Most dont know about DV, cant use it or dont need it.

[nevcairiel]

Being spammed by annoying users is not exactly a great motivational help...
You have requested the feature, the developers have read it, repeating it won't get you anything.

If you care so much about DV support in free tools, you should pester Dolby about releasing specifications. But of course they'll never do that, but you should try anyway!

[d3rd3vil]

What are you thinking of me ofc I also wrote to dolby laboratories ^^ No answer though ofc.

[mparade]

Hello,

I have a 4K TV and set madVR profiles correctly, but,
when playing an mkv file, e.g. with a resolution of 1920x804p, I am getting incorrect source handling.
madVR doesn't do any doubling, however my profiles have been set so. Additionally, after playing the first video file using madVR the player's GUI was totally mixed up (after the player finished playing the video/stopped the player manually), and when this had happened, it was needed each time to close and reopen it.
I played a few hours with it and realized at the end that this issue only occurs when madVR is chosen as the renderer. The same issue has happened to me in JRiver and MPC-HC as well.
So, now nothing special I would like to achieve, only wouuld like to play back my mkvs correctly using my own madVR profiles.

Link to the screenshot about the problem:

http://s1.toldacuccot.hu/letoltes?si...creenshot3.png

Any help would be appreciated.

[ashlar42]

I don't even own a 4K screen, let alone an HDR Dolby Vision capable one. I'm not here to condone d3rd3vil behaviour or anything but... the "black box, will never happen" argument doesn't hold. In the past we've had several of these black boxes and with time they've been made usable. Wasn't DTS encoding impossible with free tools for the longest time, for instance, do I remember wrong?

[d3rd3vil]

Its the best there is for an Oled so we want it Even with slight improvements.

[Razoola]

Personally I have been very underwelmed with dolby vision. I have watched various DV shows via netflix on my E6 OLED and at some point I though I had issues with by panel when it turned out dolby vision was the cause.

The main issue I have seen with content using it is line bleed in the source material. Those of you who owned Plasma in the past will know what line bleed is I suspect. Well dolby vision is so great that their cameras or encoding method ends up putting that effect into the source material for you. Its really dire in some of the daredevil series I watched in the past.

I steer well clear of Dolby Vision these days and I would be the first to sign a petition for TV makers to drop DV and bring back 3D.

[EDIT], here is a video clip of a prime example of DV crappyness I recorded a few months back. Its not even a great quality video but you can see the linebleed over the black bricks and his chest as he gets out of bed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_ALuDz9Uo4

[d3rd3vil]

What to look for in that vid? I have seen sooo many videos about Oled faults....you have to experience it yourself. Vids usually dont help.

And Daredevil is a grainy material that certainly doesnt need DV or DV makes it even worse that could be possible yes.

[Razoola]

Originally Posted by d3rd3vil

What to look for in that vid? I have seen sooo many videos about Oled faults....you have to experience it yourself. Vids usually dont help.

And Daredevil is a grainy material that certainly doesnt need DV or DV makes it even worse that could be possible yes.

In this case (the video above) its not an OLED fault, its a Dolby Vision issue.

The issue the video is showing is line bleed. Look at the horizontal slat in the window on the right of picture. Then look at the black bricks at the same height to the left of it. You can see they are darker than the other bricks over the entire wall (like dark hortz line painted on them). Then as he moves up out of bed that line bleed causes he chest to have a yellow smudgy line over it.

Please don't even think about saying its a lighting shadow in the room when filming took place.

[d3rd3vil]

Well ok then its shit in Daredevil ok. Still I am not convinced DV is shit ^^

[madshi]

Originally Posted by huhn

isn't upscaling grain/noise and not important pixel art still a problem?
sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong. i'm not here to say that your scaling algorithms are bad or something they are the best i'm aware of by a big margin.

To my eyes pixart looks much better upscaled with NGU Anti-Alias compared to not upscaled. But if you absolutely hate upscaling pixart, you can always use nearest neighbor upscaling, which should look roughly similar to "unscaled" on a 1080p display.

Upscaling grain/noise doesn't work particularly well, which means it doesn't really benefit from upscaling. But it doesn't really hurt much, either.

Upscaling helps *A LOT* for reproducing any kind of edges much better than displaying the images untouched.

Originally Posted by ashlar42

I don't know. Image processing can do wonders for bad sources, I agree. For good sources I think that not touching anything, by default, provides the most faithful result.

Not true at all. Actually, the better the source quality, the better NGU Sharp looks. E.g. have you seen these screenshots yet?

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post54983374

These are from one of the best UHD Blu-Rays (in terms of detail and resolution) we have so far, and madVR's 1080p -> UHD upscale gets remarkably close to the UHD image, when talking about edges. Of course madVR can't invent texture detail which isn't there in the 1080p image. But edges upscaled to 4K look *so* much better than when displaying the 1080p image untouched.

Originally Posted by d3rd3vil

So all in all HDR10 passthrough doesnt work properly as well?

It works just fine, using the latest Nvidia or AMD GPUs, as long as you use a "good" GPU driver version.

Originally Posted by omarank

Feedback on RCA and RRN:

[...]

* Using RRN followed by application of “add grain” in upscaling refinement looked pretty cool. I will be testing that more on the weekend.

FWIW, I'm not fully happy with what RRN does to grain. At some point I'll find a better solution, which should make removing + later re-adding grain more feasible.

Originally Posted by omarank

It would be really great if 2) could be done, as besides Dolby Vision output we will also be able to confirm which GPU hardware and what driver settings lead to bitperfect output of madVR rendered frames.

It's not worth the (rather big) effort, just to give you a test for bitperfect output! If that's a minor side benefit then that's fine with me. But if I implement Dolby Vision support, then the main motivation for that must be improved image quality.

Originally Posted by thewildsun

However, I'm still stuck trying to figure out a new problem, which is an audio crackle which gets louder the higher the GPU usage is. I've only been able to reproduce it in madVR so far -- I've tried FurMark as well as games with unlocked FPS to maximize GPU use and they did not produce this crackle sound. It doesn't seem like GPU coil whine to me, but I could be wrong about that. The biggest problem with this crackle is that I can hear it through my speakers. My audio chain looks like this

Might make sense to double check that you don't have DPC latency issues. See here:

http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml

I had these issues (plus occasional blue screens) on my rather old HTPC when I allowed the HTPC to dynamically clock the CPU down. Fixing the CPU at normal clocks all the time solved the issue for me.

Originally Posted by xabregas

So i updated the great fall creators BS windows 10 and right away i had several problems and one of them is making me thinking in returning to windows 8.1 ASAP. No FSE on madvr??? Well it didnt crash the player but when it goes to FSE i get black screen with sound.

Which GPU and driver? Don't use Nvidia 387.xx. Use 385.xx instead.

Originally Posted by PurpleMan

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV

No idea right now. Have you tried enabling/disabling "use D3D11 for presentation" in madVR? Also try Overlay mode.

Originally Posted by e-t172

...and to put more weight behind that statement, this is consistent with what is said in Poynton's book for example, where he explains the concept of point spread function (PSF). The reason why LCD screens behave poorly in that regard is that they have a box PSF (in layman's terms, "square pixels"). In contrast, good ol'CRTs are better at this, because they have a gaussian PSF.

I'm not sure I really like CRT gaussian PSFs, to be honest. Sure, they may make the image look more analog, but if the PSFs of neighbor pixels overlap, that will blur the image, and if they don't overlap, you have "gaps" which means less brightness and maybe a visible "texture" to the image. I think box PSF is just fine, as long as the resolution is high enough so that our eyes don't see the aliasing. One argument more for using upscaling with 4K!

Originally Posted by Blackwalker

i replied to all suggestions i read, if i miss your (i dont think) sorry maybe i didnt see wasnt my intention

Here's my reply which I think you've ignored so far:

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=46670

Originally Posted by mparade

I have a 4K TV and set madVR profiles correctly, but,
when playing an mkv file, e.g. with a resolution of 1920x804p, I am getting incorrect source handling.
madVR doesn't do any doubling, however my profiles have been set so.

It seems to be a case of 1080p movie on 1080p screen, so why should madVR double? Did you activate supersampling? If so, it might make sense if you make screenshots of your doubling settings page. Also please make sure that the profile you want to be active is actually active (shown in "bold" font) in this situation.

Originally Posted by mparade

Additionally, after playing the first video file using madVR the player's GUI was totally mixed up (after the player finished playing the video/stopped the player manually), and when this had happened, it was needed each time to close and reopen it.

Can't say anything about that without seeing a screenshot of what you mean. madVR is usually not responsible for the player GUI, unless the player uses the madVR GUI/OSD APIs.

Originally Posted by mparade

I played a few hours with it and realized at the end that this issue only occurs when madVR is chosen as the renderer. The same issue has happened to me in JRiver and MPC-HC as well.

Which issue are you talking about? Not doubling? Or mixed up GUI?

[YxP]

To everyone with problems in Windows 10 remember to disable all muthaphukkin' game modes, -bars etc. and use adaptive or high performance power profile.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Note that as of the Fall Creators update, Game mode is opt-in on a per-application basis - it's no longer a global toggle. Of course, if a game does opt in, it'll probably hog all the system resources.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by madshi

To my eyes pixart looks much better upscaled with NGU Anti-Alias compared to not upscaled. But if you absolutely hate upscaling pixart, you can always use nearest neighbor upscaling, which should look roughly similar to "unscaled" on a 1080p display.

using NGU AA or nnedi3 is clearly changing the a pixelart image creators intend.
and NN (not that i want to use it) is no real option in madVR anymore you can trigger it with an hot key but that's it.
pixdelart is not important anyway it is just something that is hard to scale with a normal scaler or without changing the creators intend.

Upscaling grain/noise doesn't work particularly well, which means it doesn't really benefit from upscaling. But it doesn't really hurt much, either.

if we now upscaling a noisy dvd to UHD i'm not so sure it will not harm the image...
i even go as far and say upscaling an not optimal DVD source is usually showing some major problem yes edges get usually smoother but images are more than this. most scaler make the image unsharp and sharpening i shows other issues.
yes you can change the upscalier for different image types

Upscaling helps *A LOT* for reproducing any kind of edges much better than displaying the images untouched.

this is something i can totally agree on upscaling generally helps a to hide/aliasing aliasing.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by ashlar42

I don't even own a 4K screen, let alone an HDR Dolby Vision capable one. I'm not here to condone d3rd3vil behaviour or anything but... the "black box, will never happen" argument doesn't hold.

Long story short, skip to 8'34 they know: vimeo.com/194658219

To me Mike and madshi are the same level of experts, they don't need Dolby to run their business.

[xabregas]

Originally Posted by madshi

Which GPU and driver? Don't use Nvidia 387.xx. Use 385.xx instead.

gtx 750 ti and 388.00

But i reverted to windows 8.1 and everything is great again. (Not great because since XP there is no best windows os).

Im not sure what happened because before fall creators update evrything was just fine with default FSE in d3d9. I could have reverted to windows 10 before Fall creators but everything in windows 10 make me sick. The main problem is the pain we have in selecting the updates we want or not. And other bugs. And the privacy probems. I need more time to configure everything in windows 10 than to actually install it.

I will wait for windows 11 (If "11" is a number they think its not bad luck). What a crap company microsoft become.

Microsoft keeps trying to impose new "sh/%#/T" to us without care what we all want. Cant they see we prefer simple things to anoying 3d windows coming from everywhere and notifications flying around even after i disabled EVERY NOTIFICATION. THEY KEEP APPEARiNG. sry for venting -.-

[madshi]

Originally Posted by huhn

using NGU AA or nnedi3 is clearly changing the a pixelart image creators intend.

IMHO the pixart image creator's intent was not to create low-res highly aliased images. They simply had no other choice, because the game consoles at the time didn't support any higher resolution. So they did the best they could, setting every pixel carefully by hand. However, if they had had the chance to use a higher resolution, they probably would have, and in the process they would have created images that would have been much less aliased.

Now it's a valid question if NGU AA is able to "interpret" the images in such a way that brings them nearer to the original image creator's intent or farther away. This is a topic that would probably be valid grounds for heated discussions. Personally, when re-playing old pixeart adventure games, I'd much rather have NGU AA upscaled images than nearest neighbor. But I suppose every user has a right to decide for himself. Generally saying that upscaling pixart with NGU AA does not honor the image creator's intent is IMHO not fair, at least I don't agree with that.

Originally Posted by huhn

if we now upscaling a noisy dvd to UHD i'm not so sure it will not harm the image...
i even go as far and say upscaling an not optimal DVD source is usually showing some major problem yes edges get usually smoother but images are more than this. most scaler make the image unsharp and sharpening i shows other issues.

Who in this thread cares about "most scalers"? The key question is what madVR can do with it.

FWIW, DVD sources are not even encoded in their native aspect ratio, so it's impossible to display DVDs without scaling them in at least one direction!

Originally Posted by xabregas

gtx 750 ti and 388.00

But i reverted to windows 8.1 and everything is great again. (Not great because since XP there is no best windows os).

Well, I've been recommending for months (years?) now to use Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 10, but only very few people listen to me.

That said, with 385.xx drivers it might have worked ok.

[madshi]

madVR v0.92.8 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added 3 new "reduce compression artifacts" strength steps between 1-4
* removed deblock option "don't reduce texture detail", wasn't useful
* replaced old "reduce random noise" strengths 1+2 with a new strength 1
* fixed: key for increasing "reduce random noise" strength stopped at 5

Not much time for madVR atm, so just some smaller algo tweaks.

[ABDO]

Nice work madshi, thanks.