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Old 1st December 2019, 22:55   #57941  |  Link
huhn
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the rx 5700 xt has the same pricing as these RTX cards taking out every possible way for me to call them over priced compared to AMD.

and maybe is just me but i see a difference between bogus meta data and a GPU driver that is constantly crashing.

maybe i need to get my exception down too but having a 450 euro card for about 4 months now that i can't use where i want it at all doesn't feel right. because of a known bug.
i'm all ready excepting them to refresh this card before i can use mine. and the only reason i still own it is that i don't want to bother with returning it.

it not like the fun is stopping anytime soon: https://www.techpowerup.com/261603/a...-for-seti-home

even zen 2 had a major release bug with absolutely no excuses.
the only way it could been released with it in this case is that they didn't even test it. if it would have been released today it would be a "flawless" product without the bios update nightmare.

all this just to meme a little bit at 07.07.2019 to release bad tested hardware.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:28   #57942  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
I agree with all of your points, but Nvidia prices were getting ridiculous in RTX series, so a competitor is needed to get the prices down.
When you find one, let us know. Because yes, a true competitor is needed. And AMD should be it. But right now, I'd not consider one and I was a huge AMD die hard fan for many years. The RTX's aren't perfect, but, for madvr right now, it's the only thing I'd consider. Hopefully that changes as real competition IS needed.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 06:18   #57943  |  Link
Klaus1189
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A typical cost issue, to save money and use users as beta testers and there's a word for it - banana product. Perhaps team blue is better next year, they seem to release a dedicate graphics card, but nev is not convinced:
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Its a shame Intel graphics drivers have also been quite horrible since the beginning of time.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 14:24   #57944  |  Link
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have to say i'm not really seeing any issues with my 5700 card beyond the elevated blacks, played jedi fallen order, shadow of the Tomb raider, battlefield V, assins creed origins and also loaded a couple of half life games from steam, no issues at all. Wonder if my ageing platforum is more stable than newer ones
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Old 2nd December 2019, 15:23   #57945  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
have to say i'm not really seeing any issues with my 5700 card beyond the elevated blacks
:d :d :d
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Old 2nd December 2019, 18:22   #57946  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
...430.39 from 2019-04-23 fixed it but removed 3D support, which may also be a point for HTPC users who have bought lots of 3D titles. It took them also over 6 month to fix it.
"It took them also over 6 month to fix it." means, that they fixed the missing 3D MVC is back in current Nvidia drivers?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 18:26   #57947  |  Link
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it's not back and it is very unlikely to ever come back from nvidia.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 18:39   #57948  |  Link
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Hi guys, I see a lot of you now own the LG C9 and Nvidia cards, and there's an LG OLED with madVR thread started I see. I just got a C9, and its extremely hard to find the best info for the C9 setup for PCs / madVR in terms of what modes to use (PC Label On/Off, Game Mode On/Off, Ultra HD Deep Color On/Off) and use of RGB or ycbcr4XX, 8 / 12 bit output, different results in 60hz vs refresh rates, warm 2 vs medium(default) temperature when in game mode. There is one thing I think there is consensus on, and that's that there is confusion and different information in various threads on the best setup

Does anyone know where the best source of latest information is as I see some really good discussions in this thread a few posts back from a few of you, regarding best setups to avoid banding with HDR and SDR movies given the limitations of this TV in various modes? Should we start a LG C9 specific thread here do you think, or are existing ones on the likes of avforums the best place to go?

It almost feels like if we had a really well defined set of tests we want to benchmark the various combinations against, we could capture all of the results somehow. I started to do this myself with a hdr10 banding rotating gradients video but find it hard to tell if the gradients I am seeing should be visible, or if what I'm seeing is as good as it gets (without turning on something like smooth gradation). Its very hard to objectively compare each combination of settings, as there are so many variables, driver versions, madVR calibration/hdr/dithering settings etc etc.

Last edited by mark0077; 2nd December 2019 at 18:47.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 21:07   #57949  |  Link
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I don't like that spinning gradient test, use the full screen 16 bit gradients instead. I found testing to be relatively straightforward, the different options do not influence each other very much so you can test them individually.

I did a lot of testing myself so I am pretty confident in my settings, assuming no banding and full resolution chroma are priorities. If you don't mind YCbCr 422 then madVR seems somewhat less important though still useful, but you do get more flexibility with regards to HDMI modes, etc. The only contradictory advice I have seen is people saying what should be ideal theoretically, without actually testing it.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 22:00   #57950  |  Link
Morgin187
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I think we need one for Samsung qled Q9fn too. If anyone got any tips with this tv and madvr please let us know. The tv is 10 bit display so is it better to have NVidia control panel set to rgb 12 bit (NVidia only has 8 and 12 bit option). Or is ycbr 444 8 bit better for movies and gaming.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 22:04   #57951  |  Link
mark0077
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Great thank you so much for your guides and posts. So having read your recent posts, and used a grayscale gradient as my desktop, where input lag and full resolution chroma are important, it looks best as follows (I think as you have concluded around the color format / depth).

# LG C9 Itself
HDMI Input Label: PC
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour: On
Picture Mode: Game (User) with the following changes to the defaults
Black Level: Low
Sharpness: 0
Colour: 50
White Balance: Warm 2 (Not sure why it defaults to Medium here)

# Nvidia Control Panel
Output colour format: YCbCr444
Output colour depth: 8bpc (its crazy that higher actually does look worse, but its true)
Output dynamic range: Limited

# madVR
Display Output Levels: PC Levels (0-255)
Native Bitdepth: Auto
Calibration: disable calibration controls for this display
Reduce banding strength: low
Reduce banding strength during fade in/out: high
Use Direct3D 11 for presentation: On
Present a frame for every VSync: On
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)
trade quality: All off

# Refresh Rates
I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce, or is just your typical 24p judder?

I was setting up madVR to switch modes to 2160p23 / 2160p59 and worked quite well. I actually noticed by default 2160p24 shows really noticeably bad banding with the gradient-perceptual tests (and I checked in Nvidia CP and it seems 24p mode doesn't have the option for YCbCr444, switching to 2160p23 and and its there and the banding is gone).

I'm not sure if something like CRU will help me create a 2160p24 mode, that supports YCbCr444.

Similarly I have added a custom mode in madVR for 47.95hz and it works well, but again its stuck in RGB mode only.

Last edited by mark0077; 3rd December 2019 at 20:35.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 00:50   #57952  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
Great thank you so much for your guides and posts. So having read your recent posts, and used a grayscale gradient as my desktop, where input lag and full resolution chroma are important, it looks best as follows (I think as you have concluded around the color format / depth).

# LG C9 Itself
HDMI Input Label: PC
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour: On
Picture Mode: Game (User) with the following changes to the defaults
Black Level: Low
Sharpness: 0
Colour: 50
White Balance: Warm 2 (Not sure why it defaults to Medium here)

# Nvidia Control Panel
Output colour format: YCbCr444
Output colour depth: 8bpc (its crazy that higher actually does look worse, but its true)
Output dynamic range: Limited

# madVR
Display Output Levels: PC Levels (0-255)
Native Bitdepth: Auto
Calibration: disable calibration controls for this display
Reduce banding strength: low
Reduce banding strength during fade in/out: high
Use Direct3D 11 for presentation: On
Present a frame for every VSync: On
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)
trade quality: All off

# Refresh Rates
I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce.

I was setting up madVR to switch modes to 2160p23 / 2160p59 and worked quite well. I actually noticed by default 2160p24 shows really noticeably bad banding with the gradient-perceptual tests (and I checked in Nvidia CP and it seems 24p mode doesn't have the option for YCbCr444, switching to 2160p23 and and its there and the banding is gone).

I'm not sure if something like CRU will help me create a 2160p24 mode, that supports YCbCr444.
Selecting 23Hz in your display modes for 23.976Hz media is the proper setting to use...
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Old 3rd December 2019, 00:54   #57953  |  Link
WuNgUn
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So I have a bunch of 10 bit, HDR 4K media, and I'm unsure of what colour settings to run...
YCbCr 422 gives me 10 bit option, but dynamic range is "limited"...? How can this be? Is it a HDMI bandwidth issue?
If I run 23.97Hz refresh (which should free up bandwidth), it doesn't offer a "full" option...
So, is RGB 8 bit colour better, as it give full dynamic range, even though my 10 bit media falls back to 8 bit?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:04   #57954  |  Link
huhn
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YCbCr with HDMI is always limited and you can ignore this part and the TV knows this so it can't mismatch them.
but that not really important because you should use RGB if it is available and if your device properly supports it full range RGB because that's just better on a PC.

bit deep on media can be pretty much ignored it doesn't matter if your device supports 10 bit properly with no back draws you would get very similar benefits using an 8 bit file.

but the only difference between 8 bit RGB output and 10 bit RGB output is the noise level. can you see the noise from dithering at your viewing position?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:10   #57955  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
can you see the noise from dithering at your viewing position?
Are you saying there will be visible artifacts from 10 bit media running at 8 bit output?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:20   #57956  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magik Mark View Post
If I'm playing 4k video and refresh switch is on, it follows that of 1080ps refresh rates and resolution, effectively downscaling the video. I want madvr to follow the refresh rate of the video's resolution and stop the downscaling

Tried profile switching and it's not working. It's still following that of 1080ps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Simply list your refresh rates with 2160p as the resolution for all of them.
2160p23, 2160p25, 2160p50,etc...
Your refresh rates will match your media and you'll stay at 2160p
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:32   #57957  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuNgUn View Post
Are you saying there will be visible artifacts from 10 bit media running at 8 bit output?
it's noise the same as with 8 bit content and the "same" that will be produced by the Tv panel because most are 8bit+frc anyway.

this is the noise i'm talking about:
https://abload.de/img/gradient-16bit.png_sn3wjco.png
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:38   #57958  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
it's noise the same as with 8 bit content and the "same" that will be produced by the Tv panel because most are 8bit+frc anyway.



this is the noise i'm talking about:

https://abload.de/img/gradient-16bit.png_sn3wjco.png
I'm afraid I don't know what I'm looking at/looking for in that image... Lol
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:43   #57959  |  Link
huhn
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well the noise is there but human eyes can't see it.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:44   #57960  |  Link
WuNgUn
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well the noise is there but human eyes can't see it.
Lol
I'll ask my dog if he can see any noise.
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