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Old 24th September 2012, 08:09   #14041  |  Link
madshi
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madVR doesn't use the same Overlay mode that was always available (e.g. in XP etc). madVR uses the rather new "D3D9 Hardware Overlay" functionality introduced in Windows 7. This functionality was not available on Vista or any other older OS. I suppose those color and gamma controls might only apply to the "old" Overlay stuff but not to the new one used by madVR? I'm only guessing right now, though, I don't really know.
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Old 24th September 2012, 08:16   #14042  |  Link
cyberbeing
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So then I guess the question is, if "D3D9 Hardware Overlay" doesn't internally use the "Old Hardware Overlay" on NVIDIA, can madVR do something which wasn't possible with "Old Hardware Overlay" and apply the global calibrated gamma ramps to the overlay surface?
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Old 24th September 2012, 08:27   #14043  |  Link
madshi
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Applying GPU gamma ramps shouldn't be that hard, I guess. The other question is if all GPU manufacturers implement the new Hardware Overlay the same way? If I manually add gamma ramps via pixel shaders, maybe with e.g. Intel we'll get double gamma ramps? Can anybody with an Intel GPU on win7 test whether GPU gamma ramps affect madVR's Overlay mode?
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Old 24th September 2012, 08:33   #14044  |  Link
Nicola
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Some more questions abouth GPUs and madvr...
Resume: playing 1080p (gpu 50%) content on fullhd monitor is fine with default madvr setting, 720 is not (gpu 100%). New GPU needed.
I upgraded the budget, and now I have some doubts.
GeForce GT640, GeForce GTS 450, GeForceGTX550 Ti. Those 3 are the new candidates, since madshi said the 610 was a bit on the low side.
Let aside price and power usage considerations, I see some have 1GB, some 2GB, but one has double number of shaders, while some shows more BW... I am in despair, what does actually matters for madvr?
Can someone help me, please? Thanks.
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Old 24th September 2012, 08:39   #14045  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Freeze when reloading video (CTRL+E) in Fullscreen Exclusive mode while video is playing:

madVR debug log and freeze report with MPC-HC pdb
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Old 24th September 2012, 08:51   #14046  |  Link
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Taking into account the new anti-ringing option what the the recommended upscaling filters for HD content?

What is this exactly?
* added "enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option
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Old 24th September 2012, 08:56   #14047  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Possible? Yes. The problem is that if I start adding one thing after the next to the seekbar, it will be flooded with information pretty well. You're asking for the filename, the next user might ask for some other information to be added, e.g. the video decoder or the video codec. I think some day in the future I'll have to make a list of what should be shown and then find a new seekbar/UI design for exclusive mode which shows all the needed information.
Could you just add the filename and call it quits from that point until the resdesign? I'd really appreciate it. It wouldn't clutter the seekbar up (text on either side at the top would look fine)
That along with a keyboard shortcut to show the seekbar and I'd be happy.. at least until I can get the devs of MPC to add in all the other stuff (codec info etc) for display without having to
minimize the screen and leave exclusive mode, which will avoid you having to add the other stuff in, thanks.

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Originally Posted by l0rdraiden View Post
Taking into account the new anti-ringing option what the the recommended upscaling filters for HD content?
Lanczos 3 with AR seems to be the favorite for luma upscaling, but it all depends on your content, current sharpness levels, contrast etc. Your best deciding this for yourself.

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Originally Posted by l0rdraiden View Post
What is this exactly?
* added "enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option
A different method of presentation with less chance of tearing and better performance (It's all there in Madshi's post) enable it and see how it goes.

Last edited by ryrynz; 24th September 2012 at 09:06.
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:11   #14048  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
Some more questions abouth GPUs and madvr...
Resume: playing 1080p (gpu 50%) content on fullhd monitor is fine with default madvr setting, 720 is not (gpu 100%). New GPU needed.
I upgraded the budget, and now I have some doubts.
GeForce GT640, GeForce GTS 450, GeForceGTX550 Ti. Those 3 are the new candidates, since madshi said the 610 was a bit on the low side.
Let aside price and power usage considerations, I see some have 1GB, some 2GB, but one has double number of shaders, while some shows more BW... I am in despair, what does actually matters for madvr?
Can someone help me, please? Thanks.
(prices from froogle)

640: 88$, slow, much too expensive for the speed, not recommended
450: 66$, reasonably good performance, best bang for the buck
550: 101$, faster than 450, but also more expensive
650: 110$, slightly faster than 550, very power efficient

Looking at those prices, if you want to save money, I'd get the 450. If you want more speed, the 550 and 650 both look priced ok. If power consumption is important to you, I'd get the 650.

1GB should be enough, unless you want to upscale to 4K, then maybe 2GB would be worth it. But I guess 4K is too far away for now, so I think 1GB should be good enough.
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:11   #14049  |  Link
andybkma
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What I have noticed while using the new ""enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option is that it takes the player noticeably longer to actually stop playing a vid when the media player stop button is pressed. Guess that is a by product of the new option? When I disable that new feature, the vids stop playing faster than with that option disabled but still slower than before in earlier versions than v83

Last edited by andybkma; 24th September 2012 at 09:22.
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:21   #14050  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Freeze when reloading video (CTRL+E) in Fullscreen Exclusive mode while video is playing:

madVR debug log and freeze report with MPC-HC pdb
Thank you, that's very helpful. MPC-HC does this in its main thread:

Code:
		CAMEvent e;
		m_pGraphThread->PostThreadMessage(CGraphThread::TM_CLOSE, 0, (LPARAM)&e);
		e.Wait(); // either opening or closing has to be blocked to prevent reentering them, closing is the better choice
So basically the main thread waits for the graph thread to close down, without handling messages. In exclusive mode the MPC-HC main window is the Direct3D device window. So when closing down Direct3D in exclusive mode, Direct3D probably tries to contact the MPC-HC main window, but that doesn't react because the main thread isn't handling messages. I believe this is a "bug" in MPC-HC. The main thread should handle messages at all times. Not handling messages while closing down the graph thread is an open invitation to get freezes, IMHO.

Any MPC-HC dev reading this? Is there any chance to have the MPC-HC behaviour modified? MPC-HC really does have to handle messages while waiting for the graph thread to close down!

Edit: I'll take this to the MPC-HC thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Could you just add the filename and call it quits from that point until the resdesign?
But adding the filename is just *your* wish! Do the other madVR users share the same wish? Maybe some of them would rather have the video decoder or codec displayed instead of the file name? If all madVR users agree that the file name is the most important thing to show now, then I could add it, but I doubt there will be agreement. I think some users will want information A while others want information B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
What I have noticed while using the new ""enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" option is that it takes the player noticeably longer to actually stop playing a vid when the media player stop button is pressed. Guess that is a by product of the new option? When I disable that new feature, the vids stop playing pretty much instantaneously
In which way does the stopping take longer? Can you describe it in more detail, please? Thanks.
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:41   #14051  |  Link
andybkma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

In which way does the stopping take longer? Can you describe it in more detail, please? Thanks.
Win7 64bit, Nvidia 306.23 drivers with 640M-LE video card, Zoom Player

It's no biggie but I just thought I should report it in case you were interested. With "Windowed Overlay" enabled, when I press the stop button while playing a vid file in window mode with Zoom Player, the video will pause, the paused image will stay for about a second, then the file will finally close. While in earlier versions pre v83, when I pressed stop the video file would close pretty much instantaneously. When I disable "Windowed Overlay", closing videos is faster than with "Windowed Overlay" enabled but still slower than pre v83.

Was thinking that this is just 1) a by product of the new window overlay feaure and 2) I think you set it up in these new .83 versions for mVR to close slower even with window overlay disabled...
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:43   #14052  |  Link
Nicola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
(prices from froogle)

640: 88$, slow, much too expensive for the speed, not recommended
450: 66$, reasonably good performance, best bang for the buck
550: 101$, faster than 450, but also more expensive
650: 110$, slightly faster than 550, very power efficient

Looking at those prices, if you want to save money, I'd get the 450. If you want more speed, the 550 and 650 both look priced ok. If power consumption is important to you, I'd get the 650.

1GB should be enough, unless you want to upscale to 4K, then maybe 2GB would be worth it. But I guess 4K is too far away for now, so I think 1GB should be good enough.

well, I said nothing about prices cause I'm in EU, and the prices are higher, and just different. I'm interested in the 650... does its power efficiency impact on performances or it's just a smaller die? btw, is it the gtx650 you're talking? I'll have to see if my mobo supports that...
Thanks for the infos

Last edited by Nicola; 24th September 2012 at 09:46.
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:50   #14053  |  Link
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What do you mean
Was meaning as you can't use a separate device for presentation in XP, there is a chance you will get dropped frames with the new drivers. That is what I am seeing.
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:53   #14054  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
With "Windowed Overlay" enabled, when I press the stop button while playing a vid file in window mode with Zoom Player, the video will pause, the paused image will stay for about a second, then the file will finally close.
Are you just talking about when the visible video image goes "black"? Or does the slowness also affect ZoomPlayer itself, e.g. the state of the play/stop buttons etc?

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Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
While in earlier versions pre v83, when I pressed stop the video file would close pretty much instantaneously. When I disable "Windowed Overlay", closing videos is faster than with "Windowed Overlay" enabled but still slower than pre v83.

Was thinking that this is just 1) a by product of the new window overlay feaure and 2) I think you set it up in these new .83 versions for mVR to close slower even with window overlay disabled...
v0.83 might close a bit slower. Older versions didn't wait for D3D to be fully closed. v0.83 does wait. This change was necessary to avoid crashes which sometimes occurred with the old behaviour. However, if Overlay is slower than normal windowed mode, that may be something I could improve (not sure).

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Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
well, I said nothing about prices cause I'm in EU, and the prices are higher, and just different. I'm interested in the 650... does its power efficiency impact on performances or it's just a smaller die? btw, is it the gtx650 you're talking? I'll have to see if my mobo supports that...
Ok, Euro prices:

640: 77,76 €
450: 80,66 €
550: 93,15 €
650: 91,24 €

In that case I'd go with the 650, I guess. The power efficiency does not affect performance. It just means that the 650 consumes less power while running at the same speed. That results in a cooler GPU, a cooler PC and lower fan noise.

I don't think there is a non-TI 550? At least I didn't find one, I was talking about the 550 Ti.
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Old 24th September 2012, 09:57   #14055  |  Link
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D3D9 Hardware Overlay
Cool. So you have a YUV surface and let your scaler shaders run over them and don't run any RGB conversion inside the renderer?

Would be interesting to see whether this also works with the EVR Mixer (+using the DXVA scaler) and a Custom Presenter component. I have never seen the EVR Mixer outputting anything but RGB...
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:00   #14056  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
But adding the filename is just *your* wish!


Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Do the other madVR users share the same wish? Maybe some of them would rather have the video decoder or codec displayed instead of the file name? If all madVR users agree that the file name is the most important thing to show now, then I could add it, but I doubt there will be agreement. I think some users will want information A while others want information B.
Not sure I can get ALL MadVR users to agree but anyone interested in having the filename on the seekbar please let Madshi know, example pic below. Thanks guys.

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Old 24th September 2012, 10:00   #14057  |  Link
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mmm, nice prices. You should share your source, online store I found are like 20 euro more minimum... like the same as -number- US prices, just with "euro" instead of "usd"...

I suppose that if my mobo doesn't support 3.0 bus, I won't benefit much from the 650? Or do you think I can still use it (the nice 65W are tempting) and have equal performances to the 550?
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:03   #14058  |  Link
madshi
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Cool. So you have a YUV surface and let your scaler shaders run over them and don't run any RGB conversion inside the renderer?
No no. The Overlay is running in RGB. madVR renders RGB, as usual. The key difference is that in normal windowed mode, the pixels have to be copied to the screen, which costs performance and which can result in tearing. When using Overlay, the video pixels are never copied to the screen.
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:05   #14059  |  Link
madshi
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mmm, nice prices. You should share your source, online store I found are like 20 euro more minimum... like the same as -number- US prices, just with "euro" instead of "usd"...
http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/

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I suppose that if my mobo doesn't support 3.0 bus, I won't benefit much from the 650? Or do you think I can still use it (the nice 65W are tempting) and have equal performances to the 550?
The 3.0 bus doesn't have much effect, if any at all. The bus does not affect the performance of the 650. Please do a google search for "Geforce 650 review" and look for yourself. The 650 seems to be slightly faster than the 550 Ti, and with almost half the power consumption. Not bad, eh?
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:17   #14060  |  Link
Nicola
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Yes, the gtx650 seems really good, and if bus doesn't affect performance, it's perfect for me, since my mobo (asus M4A87TD-EVO) just has 2.0 x16... btw, .de, so if shipped it'll cost the same to me, lucky thing the 650 has almost same price. If there aren't issues in the review I'm reading, I'll go for that. Thanks again.
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