Strong majority of active mobile devices are HEVC hardware capable

[TomV]

The vast majority of mobile devices support hardware HEVC playback. @scientiamobile licenses the MOVR device identification API to many top mobile app developers. At the end of Q2, they found that 78% of iOS devices and 57% of Android devices requesting video streams were HEVC hardware capable. This is quality data, with excellent worldwide coverage. https://www.scientiamobile.com/wp-co...8-Q2-final.pdf

[hajj_3]

nobody wants to use hevc though due to the patent costs and problems.

[TomV]

Originally Posted by hajj_3

nobody wants to use hevc though due to the patent costs and problems.

Not true at all. No patent royalties are involved in HEVC content distribution. Only for HEVC hardware distribution.

Most top-tier video streaming services have either already streaming HEVC or are working to implement HEVC support. I know of 2 well-known services that are already streaming more HEVC than AVC (which is easy to do when most of your content is available in both formats). The added cost of encoding and CDN storage to make a VOD catalog or live channels available in both is far outweighed by the benefit of the big reduction in network costs and the major improvement in video quality for those who don't have enough bandwidth to get the top quality rendition (in your ABR streaming stack). When you do the math, HEVC is an absolute no-brainer.

[iwod]

Originally Posted by TomV

Not true at all. No patent royalties are involved in HEVC content distribution. Only for HEVC hardware distribution.

Most top-tier video streaming services have either already streaming HEVC or are working to implement HEVC support. I know of 2 well-known services that are already streaming more HEVC than AVC (which is easy to do when most of your content is available in both formats). The added cost of encoding and CDN storage to make a VOD catalog or live channels available in both is far outweighed by the benefit of the big reduction in network costs and the major improvement in video quality for those who don't have enough bandwidth to get the top quality rendition (in your ABR streaming stack). When you do the math, HEVC is an absolute no-brainer.

Only for Hardware?

I think that is only the case with HEVC Advance right? MPEG-LA you still have paid for distribution? And Valos and I cant even remember what's the other pool.

Youtube aren't doing any HEVC. If Content is free not sure why Google hate it other than NIH.

If it is free why Mozilla and Microsoft don't have free Software HEVC decoder included?

While it is good to know most devices are now HEVC capable. It seems to have a bad reputation that is beyond fixable. I hope VVC wont repeat the same mistake again.

[TomV]

Originally Posted by iwod

Only for Hardware?

Video services usually don't distribute player client apps with software decoders. The player app queries the device to discover the capabilities, and if the device supports HEVC, they may use it. In that case it's a hardware decoder on the device that handles the HEVC.

I think that is only the case with HEVC Advance right? MPEG-LA you still have paid for distribution? And Valos and I cant even remember what's the other pool.

I guess you're referring to a video service distributing a software decoder. In that case, only MPEG LA would charge a royalty. I talked HEVC Advance out of charging a royalty in this case (see their software policy), and Velos Media only charges royalties on devices, not software.

Youtube aren't doing any HEVC. If Content is free not sure why Google hate it other than NIH.

If it is free why Mozilla and Microsoft don't have free Software HEVC decoder included?

Again, there's a difference between distributing video and distributing a video decoder. On Windows 10 you can download a free HEVC decoder for Edge. Firefox and Chrome used to actually query the OS, and if HEVC was supported they passed it through to the OS. A few years ago both browsers were downgraded to use an evil list of codecs that these companies would allow. Even if the OS/device support HEVC, and the server wants to serve HEVC to that device, Chrome and Firefox actively block it. Chrome and Firefox don't need to ship software decoders, they just need to stop actively blocking HEVC from being streamed to HEVC capable devices.

Even if Google and Mozilla chose to include software decoders, only MPEG LA would technically want to collect a patent royalty. But if they pushed the MPEG LA companies to support the software policy that I convinced HEVC Advance to adopt (effectively meaning no royalty for browsers), I suspect they would get support.

While it is good to know most devices are now HEVC capable. It seems to have a bad reputation that is beyond fixable. I hope VVC wont repeat the same mistake again.

I know that many people reached a negative conclusion on HEVC due to the patent licensing situation. But the patent licensing situation continues to evolve, and there are many people working on it... like Unified Patents with their Video Codec Zone. For device OEMs, it's an ongoing challenge. But device OEMs have been incorporating HEVC in their devices for years, almost universally in every device that supports video. Whatever it ends up costing, they're going to pay that tab. Video services don't have the same exposure, and they're realizing that HEVC makes total sense.

[Snap]

Originally Posted by TomV

On Windows 10 you can download a free HEVC decoder for Edge. Firefox and Chrome used to actually query the OS, and if HEVC was supported they passed it through to the OS. [Now] even if the OS/device support HEVC, and the server wants to serve HEVC to that device, Chrome and Firefox actively block it.

I wonder how Edge's move to use Blink for its engine (the same used for Chrome/ium) will affect this, whether Microsoft will continue to support HEVC in their implementation.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Yep, HEVC is widely being used by streaming services with a wide device footprint. Hardware decoders are prevalent, even if a good chunk of them are 8 bit only :facepalm:

[TomV]

HEVC Advance standard essential patent owned by GE challenged as likely invalid

[benwaggoner]

Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit

Yep, HEVC is widely being used by streaming services with a wide device footprint. Hardware decoders are prevalent, even if a good chunk of them are 8 bit only :facepalm:

Only in mobile, and even there recent mobile SoCs and devices support 10-bit. Although some devices with 10-bit decoders still wind up going through an 8-bit display controller...

The nice thing about mobile is that the replacement rate is so high, so those 8-bit only handsets will be flushed out of the market in a few years (faster for phones than tablets).

Living room devices have all been 10-bit for 3+ years. Which is good given the slower replacement cycle.

[utack]

Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit

Yep, HEVC is widely being used by streaming services with a wide device footprint. Hardware decoders are prevalent, even if a good chunk of them are 8 bit only :facepalm:

Who is currently using it? Netflix for HDR
Other than that?

[Blue_MiSfit]

Are you kidding me? Anyone who streams 4K content to a TV, basically. I'd say the only major exception is Google for the Play movies store since they have a theological perspective on VP9 vs HEVC.

- Netflix
- Amazon
- Apple
- Vudu
- Fandango Now
- Movies Anywhere
- Microsoft

All of the above do 4K with HEVC, in at least 8 or 10 bit SDR, plus HDR10, and some also in Dolby Vision.

Probably many others as well.

[FranceBB]

Originally Posted by utack

Who is currently using it? Netflix for HDR
Other than that?

Not just streaming services, but broadcasters as well; for instance Sky airs 4K contents in HEVC 10bit BT2020 SDR.

[benwaggoner]

Originally Posted by FranceBB

Not just streaming services, but broadcasters as well; for instance Sky airs 4K contents in HEVC 10bit BT2020 SDR.

Dish also uses HEVC for their UHD and HDR.

ATSC 3.0 uses HEVC, which is a very influential standard for broadcasters, and ensures broad support for HEVC in living room devices.

VP9 is a non-factor in those markets, and there aren't any broadcast-grade live VP9 encoders I know of. There's a huge ecosystem of tools out there for broadcasters, and getting all the stuff updated to support a new codec is a huge effort.