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Old 28th April 2011, 19:13   #1961  |  Link
nevcairiel
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I think that would be possible .. but a good solution? I don't know o.O
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Old 28th April 2011, 19:13   #1962  |  Link
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Technically the way other players handle it....wait, this might be it. Other players play forced subs always even when subs are off. So you could have it play forced subs when the no subs selection is made, and then if they want full subs they can select it. AHA! There we go, Nev!
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Old 28th April 2011, 19:14   #1963  |  Link
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That won't work. They still need to select the language they want.
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Old 28th April 2011, 19:16   #1964  |  Link
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Um, the forced subs should match the language of the audio track currently playing. The way it's done in other players is that all force subs in sub tracks that are of the same language as the current audio track selected always get played. That's even if the subs are "off". Then they can select any sub track they want. I think this would ROCK!
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Old 28th April 2011, 19:18   #1965  |  Link
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Seems like kind of a limitation to not allow changing the forced subs language. On some BDs it might also be in another sub track, and you need to switch to it .. its just - real BD players get all that information through the menu system, i don't, so i have to keep things configurable for the user to fix auto-detection mistakes
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Old 28th April 2011, 19:21   #1966  |  Link
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Yea. You could allow them to set a default language, though. I mean, MOST of the time the use case I outlined will be right. If it's wrong, then yea, they may have to go into the properties to fix it while it's playing. That's not OVERLY likely to happen if you match the sub to the audio language. But yes, I see your point.
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Old 28th April 2011, 19:47   #1967  |  Link
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If a user wants to only see forced subs, the subtitle language indeed typically matches the audio language. So you could for example only show two entries for that particular subtitle language. However, in that case the list of sub streams depends on the selected audio stream, and changing audio might be a bit problematic, but you could maybe let it auto-change the subs in that case.

Any plans for an (optional) tray icon? I always find that useful for quickly changing tracks and accessing the settings.
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Old 28th April 2011, 20:00   #1968  |  Link
nevcairiel
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No actual plans for a tray icon. It may happen one day, but not really planned yet.

Re: Subs
I guess i can make both ways possible, with some options, something like this

PGS Subtitles
- "Only deliver forced subtitles" - This option would filter out the forced subs out of whatever stream is currently selected, nothing special. Whichever track you select, you never get full subs.
- "Show Forced Subtitles separately, matching Audio" - This would add a new entry to the stream selector, a "Forced Subtitle" entry, which would show the forced subs matching the language of the audio. If you select any other track, you would get full subs.

If the first option is selected, and you have the "Only forced subtitles" select stragey on, it would ignore that option and select the first matching subtitle track. If the second is selected, and there is no stream flagged "forced", and there are PGS subs, it would go to the special "Forced Subtitles" entry, otherwise to no subs.

I'll implement the first, because thats really trivial. For the second, i'll have to think about the implementation a bit - it should be possible, especially because it only applys to PGS subs..
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Old 28th April 2011, 20:02   #1969  |  Link
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Forced subs are always on and you never have an option to change them. They will always match the language that the audio is in. So all you have to do is leave the forced subs on and be ale to select the language that the audio is in and the subs will match.... Right?
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Old 28th April 2011, 20:04   #1970  |  Link
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There is nothing preventing you from changing them. The question is how to do it properly.

The second mode outlined two posts above will most likely work just fine for 99% of all cases, and once implemented will most likely be the default.
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Old 28th April 2011, 20:05   #1971  |  Link
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Edit: I got my last post in before I saw yours Nev. I think I said the same thing you did.
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Old 28th April 2011, 20:12   #1972  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
There is nothing preventing you from changing them. The question is how to do it properly.

The second mode outlined two posts above will most likely work just fine for 99% of all cases, and once implemented will most likely be the default.
But like on a stand alone BLURAY player you can't change or turn off the forced subs, there always present in the language that's being played.
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Old 28th April 2011, 20:13   #1973  |  Link
nevcairiel
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But what if you want to? Options don't hurt.

Anyhow, i have a plan how i'm going to implement it.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 28th April 2011 at 20:15.
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Old 28th April 2011, 21:12   #1974  |  Link
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Here is a first build that implements the first method.

There is a new option on the properties page, when you select that, all PGS streams will be filtered, and only frames flagged as forced will be delivered to the subtitle renderer. It works just awesome on my Avatar Blu-ray.
I'll implement the second option soon, the checkbox in the properties page is already there.

When the option is on, the "Only Forced Subs" selection mode will select any PGS subs it finds (the first with the appropriate language, usually), unless it finds one flagged as "forced" - but thats only in MKVs.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.24-9-g60f737a.zip

Any testing of this is greatly appreciated.
Sadly there isn't really much of an indicator if a stream is actually flagging forced subs like that, so if it doesn't show any when the option is on, it could just be that..

PS:
You can swap the option during playback, however it might require quite a while until you see the change, depending on how many subtitle frames are already queued up.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 28th April 2011 at 21:16.
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Old 28th April 2011, 21:25   #1975  |  Link
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Sweet! As soon as I'm done with my daily call I'll build a version and test it out. I have a test case that'll probably break it. I'm not telling which disc it is until I try it cause I don't want anyone ruining my fun.
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Old 28th April 2011, 22:47   #1976  |  Link
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Thanks nev,

I'm wondering after my minor troubles these past couple of days, if the mkv muxers have any say on this. Will they preserve the PGS forced flags? makeMKV has for each subtitle track a sub-section that says (forced) or something like that, that you can also check or uncheck. I know the audio streams work like this: If you select the lossless track AND the DD or DTS in its sub-section, you get two different tracks in the final mkv. If you only check one, you'll get one of course. Presumably makemkv takes the DD from the interleaved THD/DD, and the DTS from the DTS-HD core.

Anyone tried with these makemkv sub options? I know Samuri uses it, maybe others do too. I'd never paid much attention to these forced sub issues.

(BTW, I would test myself, but I don't think I have any forced sub movies.)
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Old 28th April 2011, 22:53   #1977  |  Link
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Andy I'll get back to you in a minute after dinner. Nev, no workie. I get no subs on District 9. I told you I'd break it! That movie is notoriously a pain.
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Old 28th April 2011, 22:58   #1978  |  Link
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I'm having issues with keeping subs displayed (they seem to just stop displaying after 30 sec or so). I've seen this before and always thought it was a FFDSHOW issue but ..... any suggestions?
Code:
Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'J. River Audio Renderer'
        CLSID: {A4002F8E-510F-442C-8AD3-F9C7B23FB394}
        Host: 
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'XForm Out' of filter 'ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'madVR'
        CLSID: {E1A8B82A-32CE-4B0D-BE0D-AA68C772E423}
        Host: c:\users\htpc\downloads\filters\madvr\madvr.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2

    Filter 'ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD'
        CLSID: {1A89085B-B654-4ED8-8831-5AC629A05FF5}
        Host: c:\users\htpc\downloads\filters\arcsoft\asaudiohd.ax
        Input Pin 'XForm In'
            Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'LAV Splitter Source'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'XForm Out'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'J. River Audio Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: c:\program files\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'LAV Splitter Source'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'madVR'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'
            Connected to pin 'Subtitle' of filter 'LAV Splitter Source'
            Major type Unknown GUID Name: {E487EB08-6B26-4BE9-9DD3-993434D313FD}  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}
        Input Pin 'In Text 2'

    Filter 'LAV Splitter Source'
        CLSID: {B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}
        Host: c:\users\htpc\downloads\filters\lavfilters\lavsplitter.ax
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Audio'
            Connected to pin 'XForm In' of filter 'ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Subtitle'
            Connected to pin 'In Text' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type Unknown GUID Name: {E487EB08-6B26-4BE9-9DD3-993434D313FD}  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}
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Old 28th April 2011, 23:06   #1979  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
Thanks nev,

I'm wondering after my minor troubles these past couple of days, if the mkv muxers have any say on this. Will they preserve the PGS forced flags? makeMKV has for each subtitle track a sub-section that says (forced) or something like that, that you can also check or uncheck. I know the audio streams work like this: If you select the lossless track AND the DD or DTS in its sub-section, you get two different tracks in the final mkv. If you only check one, you'll get one of course. Presumably makemkv takes the DD from the interleaved THD/DD, and the DTS from the DTS-HD core.

Anyone tried with these makemkv sub options? I know Samuri uses it, maybe others do too. I'd never paid much attention to these forced sub issues.

(BTW, I would test myself, but I don't think I have any forced sub movies.)
If you select the forced option for subs, it scans the sub track while ripping it and looks for forced subs. If it finds any, it creates a new sub track with JUST the forced subs in it, separate from the main sub track. (Assuming you have it set to rip both). And yes, for audio, you are correct in how it works.
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Old 28th April 2011, 23:30   #1980  |  Link
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Thanks, I suspected it did that, but I don't think I ever ripped an actual forced sub track. So I'm assuming that it doesn't mess with PGS forced flags in any case, do you know this?
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