aspect ratio problem: 2.35:1 on a 16:9 screen

[mikewillnot]

I couldn't find anything about this exact problem, so if anyone knows of a thread or threads I missed, I'd appreciate a pointer. I have a combination of DVD player and TV that under certain conditions produces "letterbox" bars at both top/bottom and left/right sides. I'm wondering if some modifications in IFOedit could fix it. Here's what's happening.

1. With a commercial DVD, like "Pulp Fiction", which the box says is in 2.35:1 format, in a
2. fairly new but low-end Panasonic standalone DVD player, with basic functionality for zooming and aspect ratio options, (the only options are 16:9, 4:3 pan & scan, and 4:3 letterbox) feeding output via S-video to a
3. 51" Samsung DLP TV, with a screen that I understand is in 16:9 ratio.

My guess at what's happening: the player takes the 2.35:1 video from the disc and letterboxes it top and bottom, and feeds it out as a 4:3. The TV then takes the 4:3 and letterboxes it left and right. This is obviously not taking full advantage of the lovely screen real estate. I want to see the whole 2.35:1 image, no distortion. It ought to be displayable with only small letterbox bands top and bottom. I can't find any combination of options on either player or TV that will allow this.

Possible solutions that occur to me:
A. rework somehow in IFOedit (preferable; how?)
B. get a different player (I'm unfamiliar with non-low-end hardware capabilities, and the cash layout is less attractive than A)

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated as well. THANKS.

[r0lZ]

You have to configure your DVD player for your TV. Select 16:9 mode. On some very cheap players, this setup is not available, but it should be present on all Panasonics.

This thread at Digital Video forums may be useful to understand how it works.

[mikewillnot]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

You have to configure your DVD player for your TV. Select 16:9 mode.

I've tried that. What that produces is an odd result, an image extending the width of the TV sceen but having the tall black bands at top and bottom; it's artificially stretched horizontally. I believe it is the 2.35:1 image "expanded" to fit the width of the actual 16:9 screen, but with a height of a 2.35:1 image letterboxed to fit a 4:3 screen.

[r0lZ]

How is the original image? If you display it with the PgcEdit preview, it should be displayed in the correct aspect ratio for your monitor (1:1 pixel.) Look at the size of the window (including the horizontal black borders). Is it a 16:9 window? Is the image distorted?

[mikewillnot]

After ripping to a PC w DVDdecrypter, in a PGCedit window, the information box at the left with the data in it says 4:3 aspect ratio. The image in the window is wall-to-wall L/R, with very wide black bars at top and bottom (about 20% of window height per bar), with no image distortion. So it's already letterboxed for 4:3 screens? That's not the machine doing it, it's done in the source?

If so, how could I go about reformatting it so it's letterboxed for a 16:9 screen instead? (given the actual movie aspect ratio of 2.35:1.)

UPDATE: I measured the PGCedit image (the image, not the window), on my PC screen, and it's about 710mm wide x 305mm high. Hmmmm. Seems like 2:1, to me. What's that?

[r0lZ]

Seems the original video is in 4:3 (false 16:9, letterboxed, non-anamorphic.) Pitty. But that explain your problems.

To be displayed correctly on your TV, the domain streams attributes should be set to 4:3, but you can tick the "Source Picture Letterboxed" option. If your player is correctly connected with a SCRAT connector, the TV may zoom in the image automatically. (Doesn't work with my old Sony, though.) You will have the feeling of the true 16:9, but with less resolution. If that doesn't work, you have to manually switch the TV display mode to 16:9 non-anamorphic. (On my Sony, this mode is called... 16:9, while the true 16:9 anamorphic mode is called full screen!)

If you really want true 16:9, the movie must be reencoded in 16:9. That's slow, and not easy to do, and you will probably loose some quality. IMO, it's better to use it as it is. Just fix the streams attributes as explained above, and see if it works.

[mikewillnot]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

To be displayed correctly on your TV, the domain streams attributes should be set to 4:3, but you can tick the "Source Picture Letterboxed" option.

I assume you're talking about something do-able in PGCedit?

Originally Posted by r0lZ

If your player is correctly connected with a SCRAT connector

What's a SCRAT?

[ricardo.santos]

Scart cable

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by mikewillnot

I assume you're talking about something do-able in PGCedit?

Yes. Right click on your main title PGC in the left pane, and select "Domain Streams Attributes"...

What's a SCRAT?

Scrat cable, yes, also called EURO-SCRAT, or PERITEL (in Europe.)
It's a big, almost rectangular connector, with a lot of pins, including RGB.

[blutach]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

If you really want true 16:9, the movie must be reencoded in 16:9. That's slow, and not easy to do, and you will probably loose some quality. IMO, it's better to use it as it is. Just fix the streams attributes as explained above, and see if it works.

DVD Rebuilder does it in one click! But of course, you need a full encode.

After Prepare: Options --> Advanced Expert Options --> Convert 4:3 LB to 16:9 (Anamorphic)

Regards

[mikewillnot]

Originally Posted by blutach

DVD Rebuilder does it in one click! But of course, you need a full encode.

After Prepare: Options --> Advanced Expert Options --> Convert 4:3 LB to 16:9 (Anamorphic)

Regards

Interesting. I've dabbled around with AVISynth and related progs in the past and never quite figured it out. In looking over the DVD-Rebuilder page/guides, maybe this is the trick.

I wonder about the Convert option: How does it work if the source is NOT 16:9 letterboxed to 4:3, but, like mine here, is 2.35:1 letterboxed to 4:3 ? What kind of output will it produce? I'll try it out tonight and see if I can get it to go.

[manono]

Hi-

I can't find any combination of options on either player or TV that will allow this.

You don't have a Zoom on the TV's Remote control? On my Samsung it's called "Aspect" and one of them is a straight Zoom. Converting it to 16:9 using either DVD-RB or reencoding it yourself will produce the same result, i. e., lousy. There's just not enough resolution in a 4:3 widescreen DVD to make it look good on a big widescreen TV. I think you'd be better off buying one of the more recent 16:9 DVD versions of the movie.

And get yourself some component cables, if your player doesn't have a DVI or HDMI port. $20 or so at Wal-Mart. You spent the big bucks on the TV set. At least feed it properly.

[mikewillnot]

I am here to convey publicly a loud "AMEN" to the component cable thing. Got some. What a DIFFERENCE. Makes what I've been looking at seem washed-out. Dang.