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Old 30th September 2018, 17:28   #52861  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I can confirm that HDR passthrough with Nvidia's custom API doesn't work properly for me on the latest Windows 10 build with 411.70. I'll notify my Nvidia contact about this.
Thank you! Most of us are sticking with 399 for that reason.
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Old 30th September 2018, 17:28   #52862  |  Link
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Nvidia 4xx.xx triggers HDR properly only in fullscreen exclusive mode for me.
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Old 30th September 2018, 17:32   #52863  |  Link
madshi
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jerry, the newest OLEDs top out at about 800nits, or something like that. Definitely very far away from 10000nits. I can't really tell you which settings are the best. I can only advise to try different "target peak nits" values, in combination with "output video in HDR format" either on or off. And then use the settings combination that looks best to your eyes.

The other options are less important. The "measure each frame's peak luminance" and "highlight recovery strength" options can help sometimes, so they might be worth trying. You can leave the other options (tone mapping curve & color tweaks) at default.
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Old 30th September 2018, 17:34   #52864  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jerryleungwh View Post
May I ask what are some suggested settings on the HDR page? I have an LG OLED with HDR support. I believe that it is considered that tone map HDR with pixel shaders and output in HDR format should provide the best quality, but I am not too clear about the options provided even after reading some related posts here. So I have read an OLED should be able to produce up to 10000 nits, should I put that in target peak nits? I have seen some users putting 600 or 700 here and I tried that myself, and it seems to me that when the peak nits of the frame is higher than the value I put here, some of the brighter areas will be dimmed down, doesn't that mean I am not viewing the content as bright as it is supposed to be? But then it does seem if I just do passthrough the brightest area get crushed to almost and loses some detail, should I just use the * value in "HDR * nits, BT.2020 ->DCI-P3" given in the OSD as target peak nits so it reaches the brightest as it needs to while also get "correct tone mapping"? Thanks!
I'm sure others will chime in here, as well. I'm still learning myself so hopefully I don't get any of this wrong.

First, no OLED is reaching 10000 nits. That's the theoretical unicorn screen. No consumer device comes even remotely close. OLED, particularly LG OLED can MAYBE hit 800-850 max depending on how it's set up. This is why most of us with an LG OLED tend to run around the 700-800 target nit range. The theory being that if you're setting a target higher than the display is capable of, it is going to trigger the TV's internal tone mapping (CAVEAT: It probably is regardless, but, we're trying to get as close with the target nit as possible to the TV max nit...whether tone mapping is always done or not in HDR mode is something we're still working on figuring out). So, there's no easy answer to your questions, unfortunately. Trial and error are what it's going to take to determine what looks best to you. If you're on an LG OLED, I'd probably stay below 850 as my target nit. I've been using 800 lately and think that's probably a bit too high.
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Old 30th September 2018, 17:36   #52865  |  Link
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A simple OS API, which was very fast and lightweight before, suddenly consumed lots of CPU in the latest Windows 10 build and took ages to execute. I've called this API a lot, so this slowed down everything. So in v0.92.17 I'm now internally "caching" this API call to solve the issue.
Aah, that makes sense. I thought something in the system might have started spewing lots of warnings or something. Fingers crossed Microsoft are done breaking things for a while
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Old 30th September 2018, 17:37   #52866  |  Link
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I'd not bet on it. The fall update is about to be unleashed upon us all. LOL
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Old 30th September 2018, 17:50   #52867  |  Link
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@madshi thanks for the prompt reply! I have seen some comparison pictures with "highlight recovery strength" in hdr to sdr conversion and I assume it works pretty much the same when outputting in hdr format, and I think it definitely looks better with this on so I will use this and maybe keep it at low or medium. Maybe I should try with 750 nit next time and see how does it differ from passthrough. Though, at first glance it seems to me that the resulting image in passthrough is brighter than when I set this to 1000, doesn't that mean the screen can actually go over 1000 nits? Though it might just have been the wrong tone mapping by the TV that made the whole area a bit more bright so I though it was " brighter", I can't say for sure yet

@SamuriHL may I ask what result did you get that makes you think 800 is "too high"? Maybe I can use the same criteria to better adjust my setting

Thanks!
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Old 30th September 2018, 17:58   #52868  |  Link
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@madshi
I reduce physical resolution of TV set so that i can play fluently HDR movies with highlight recovery algorithm by choosing high option.When i set bright peak nits to 100,the dynamic images effects look obviously brighter than it does in passthrough mode.As it is 200 nits,dynamic images effects get close to passthrough.While choosing more than 600 nits,the effects seem undifferentiated with passthrough.
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Old 30th September 2018, 18:03   #52869  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jerryleungwh View Post
@SamuriHL may I ask what result did you get that makes you think 800 is "too high"? Maybe I can use the same criteria to better adjust my setting

Thanks!
I want to be clear, at 800 it looks fantastic. My reasoning for saying that it may be too high is that I don't know the max nit level for my specific TV. I have no way to measure it. My goal is to keep the target nit under the max nit that my TV is capable of in an effort to minimize my TV's internal tone mapping. It's very likely that it's tone mapping regardless, but, if madvr does its job at the theoretical max limit for my TV, I'm HOPING that whatever the TV does internally doesn't mess with it too much. As from my experience so far, that seems to be the case. At 800, I can see a NOTICEABLE improvement over pass-through. Hope this makes sense.
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Old 30th September 2018, 18:11   #52870  |  Link
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@SamuriHL Thanks! I'll test this again a few times to see what works better then.

@madshi may I also ask does "measure each frame's peak luminance" works kinda like sending dynamic data to the TV, if it's just about how the result looks? Like the tone mapping could be tuned according to what is needed for each frame?
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Old 30th September 2018, 19:24   #52871  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Are you sure this was introduced by a new madVR build? Maybe it was a driver or OS update?
Indeed, it's from nvidia 4xx.xx drivers. the weird thing is that madvr can switch my tv to hdr mode during playback but not madtpg!
About Defeating TV's internal tone mapping, i've measured my LG OLED HDR peak arround 394nits so i've set madvr target nit to 400nits for HDR Processing and while comparing it to HDR>SDR i couldn't see any loss of details while enjoying the luminance boost of HDR mode.
Hope madshi can implement his idea of outputing maxCLL based on selected target nits in the next official or test release.
Thanks for making my TV HDR mode usefull again
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Old 30th September 2018, 19:46   #52872  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I want to be clear, at 800 it looks fantastic. My reasoning for saying that it may be too high is that I don't know the max nit level for my specific TV. I have no way to measure it. My goal is to keep the target nit under the max nit that my TV is capable of in an effort to minimize my TV's internal tone mapping. It's very likely that it's tone mapping regardless, but, if madvr does its job at the theoretical max limit for my TV, I'm HOPING that whatever the TV does internally doesn't mess with it too much. As from my experience so far, that seems to be the case. At 800, I can see a NOTICEABLE improvement over pass-through. Hope this makes sense.
Hi, to be clear, when using MadVR tone mapping are you turning off Active HDR on your TV?
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Old 30th September 2018, 20:11   #52873  |  Link
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I've tried to insert those custom resolution values madVR calculated (first picture) into the CRU tool which you can see in picture 2.

Why is the horizontal front porch not accepted by CRU? It's red and the OK button is greyed out. It looks like madVR and the GPU driver doesn't have any problem with that front porch value. There wasn't any error message obviously.


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Old 30th September 2018, 20:57   #52874  |  Link
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Hi, to be clear, when using MadVR tone mapping are you turning off Active HDR on your TV?
I've not done a WHOLE lot of testing yet, but, in the testing I did yesterday I've found that I get better results with the LG dynamic HDR turned ON. I suspect that's because it's looking at each frame and madvr's output is probably close to what it would change. I don't really know and this is just a guess. But to me, it definitely looks better with the dynamic HDR turned on.
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Old 30th September 2018, 21:17   #52875  |  Link
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Yeah I've found Active HDR to be very effective so I wouldn't want to lose that in order to use MadVR's tone mapping. I'll be honest though, I've gone backwards and forwards between MadVR tone mapping at 700nits (with highlight recovery set to medium...I have no idea what this should be set to), and straight passthru, and I can't see any difference...ok MadVR tone mapping is ever so slightly darker (I guess I can increase target nits to make brighter) but aside from that almost imperceivable difference it looks the same. What are the benefits of MadVR tone mapping vs letting the TV do it (LG C7)
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Old 30th September 2018, 22:01   #52876  |  Link
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If you're going to tone map while in HDR mode, medium highlight recovery is probably not strong enough. Try the Are you nuts?! setting and see if that makes a difference for you. The tone mapping option was originally designed (I believe) with projectors in mind that don't necessarily have native HDR capability. The idea would be to tone map HDR to SDR. On OLED, we have trouble getting high enough brightness in SDR mode so we have to try to see if it works for us in HDR mode if we want to keep the brightness. If the difference in the TV's tone mapping vs madvr isn't perceptible to you there may not be a benefit in using the option. Try 800 nits and see what you think with a stronger highlight recovery. Also know that this is a work in progress and that it's being worked on by madshi between each version. So this option will get better with time. I already prefer it with my setup to pass-through as I can definitely see a difference.
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Old 30th September 2018, 22:14   #52877  |  Link
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It boggles my mind that there isn't a standard EDID format to report max nits, so that having to guess-and-check constantly wouldn't be necessary.
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Old 30th September 2018, 22:42   #52878  |  Link
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the max nits it pretty much a lie anyway. 2% 4 % 50 % max nit...
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Old 30th September 2018, 22:51   #52879  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by jerryleungwh View Post
Maybe I should try with 750 nit next time and see how does it differ from passthrough. Though, at first glance it seems to me that the resulting image in passthrough is brighter than when I set this to 1000, doesn't that mean the screen can actually go over 1000 nits? Though it might just have been the wrong tone mapping by the TV that made the whole area a bit more bright so I though it was " brighter", I can't say for sure yet
I don't know, I can't analyze such things just by reading your descriptions. In any case, the higher you set the target peak nits, when using "output video in HDR format", the more processing is done by the TV and the less by madVR. However, if you set the target peak nits too low, madVR will compress too much. So it's a balance act to find the "best" value.

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Originally Posted by jerryleungwh View Post
@madshi may I also ask does "measure each frame's peak luminance" works kinda like sending dynamic data to the TV, if it's just about how the result looks? Like the tone mapping could be tuned according to what is needed for each frame?
I don't really understand what you're saying. The measurement functionality doesn't report anything to the TV, if that's what you're asking. It just changes madVR's tone mapping curves.

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Originally Posted by sat4all View Post
Indeed, it's from nvidia 4xx.xx drivers. the weird thing is that madvr can switch my tv to hdr mode during playback but not madtpg!
Maybe you're using madVR in FSE mode, and madTPG in windowed mode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waldnebel View Post
I've tried to insert those custom resolution values madVR calculated (first picture) into the CRU tool which you can see in picture 2.

Why is the horizontal front porch not accepted by CRU? It's red and the OK button is greyed out. It looks like madVR and the GPU driver doesn't have any problem with that front porch value. There wasn't any error message obviously.
Why are you asking this question here? Shouldn't you ask the CRU developers about it? I don't kow the answer. Maybe CRU requires the front porch to be divisible by a certain factor (like 16 or 8 or something)?

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Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
I'll be honest though, I've gone backwards and forwards between MadVR tone mapping at 700nits (with highlight recovery set to medium...I have no idea what this should be set to), and straight passthru, and I can't see any difference...ok MadVR tone mapping is ever so slightly darker (I guess I can increase target nits to make brighter) but aside from that almost imperceivable difference it looks the same. What are the benefits of MadVR tone mapping vs letting the TV do it (LG C7)
The higher you set the target peak nits, the more processing is done by the TV. The difference may not be visible in all/many scenes. You may need to know what you're looking for. There could be differences in hue accuracy (color shift or not), in highlight detail, and other things. If you check out the AVSForum thread where we've been discussing all this for months, you'll find some movie scenes and HDR demos we like to use for comparing different tone mapping algorithms.

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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
The tone mapping option was originally designed (I believe) with projectors in mind that don't necessarily have native HDR capability.
Not true.

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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
On OLED, we have trouble getting high enough brightness in SDR mode
SDR is supposed to have peak white at around 100-200nits. Which is easy for OLED.
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Old 1st October 2018, 01:11   #52880  |  Link
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Well, AMD may be a piece junk for you but in my set up I have perfect 4K and 3D playback with RX-460 on Windows 10.I am using 18.5.1 driver and have not updated to new drivers as I am not having any issues. May I ask what issues you are having or had with AMD? If you are having issues, then I am 100% sure it's your own setup related, and AMD has got nothing to do with it. I am a proud user of AMD for years and it definitely isn't a piece of junk.
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AMD no issue? This is really bull-shit. AMD is a piece of junk.

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