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Old 21st March 2019, 03:24   #55441  |  Link
tp4tissue
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I guess the Envy will probably be a professional video tool of sorts, rather than consumer playback aimed device.

Hrrrm..
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Old 21st March 2019, 07:47   #55442  |  Link
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You can always use a HTPC - for me the attraction is ease of use. I can use a Shield and plug it into the Envy and it'll just work. No freakin driver issues, worrying about passthrough working, windows updates etc. Just look at this thread when I mentioned the HDR passthrough was broken in recent Nvidia drivers. 3D lut will also attract projector users and those not wanting for fork out for software licenses for the 2019 auto-cal OLEDs

It'll also work with things like Netflix. I think I consume more than 50% of my HDR material on Netflix now which MadVR can't touch. You can get the 1080p Web-DL's sure, but not the 4k stuff.

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Old 21st March 2019, 08:41   #55443  |  Link
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guys, lets start a seperate madvr/LG OLED thread. I'm a madvr and LG C8 Oled user too and I'm very interested in the quality differences between pc mode and others modes...


Here it is:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...58#post1869558
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Old 21st March 2019, 11:57   #55444  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Even coding super tight to hardware metal, Wouldn't it still make more sense to go HTPC w/ 2080, because the htpc-gpu will be much easier to expand and update ?
In my specific case, where I'm desperately seeking for a way to update Kodi DSPlayer to more recent builds... the prospect seem really interesting.
I currently am in a 1080p configuration. GTX660, 1080p plasma screen.
This year is most likely the year I'll switch to 4K OLED. I would need to change video card. Now, with a regular "HTPC approach" I would need to buy, say, at least a GTX 1060. And probably, to get the best out of madVR I might decide to fork out more money for a RTX2060.

If madVR Envy does what I hope it does, I might decide to buy a GTX 1030, for simple decoding purposes, and then offload all the video processing to Envy. Kodi does allow now for whitelisting resolutions and I could output unscaled and let madVR Envy handle everything.
madVR quality, Kodi updated builds, problem solved.
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Old 21st March 2019, 12:03   #55445  |  Link
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It depends really, I listened to all the advice and got a used perfect condition 1070 8GB for 205 from Ebay and the difference is amazing.

Maybe if people have lots of money, but we are talking about people spending 7k+ on projectors, so I am in a different league against that outlay for watching movies.
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Old 21st March 2019, 14:51   #55446  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I guess the Envy will probably be a professional video tool of sorts, rather than consumer playback aimed device.
I didn't get the impression that professionals are the target customers. I think it'll be for consumers who have multi-thousand dollar home theater installations who wouldn't mind dropping another thousand or two on a madVR-quality rendering device. HTPCs clash with the room decor.
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Old 21st March 2019, 16:41   #55447  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
guys, lets start a seperate madvr/LG OLED thread. I'm a madvr and LG C8 Oled user too and I'm very interested in the quality differences between pc mode and others modes...


Here it is:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...58#post1869558
A general thread has been going for a while for these kind of discussions, opening a third thread might not be a good idea.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=175769&page=18
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Old 21st March 2019, 16:41   #55448  |  Link
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You can always use a HTPC - for me the attraction is ease of use. I can use a Shield and plug it into the Envy and it'll just work. No freakin driver issues, worrying about passthrough working, windows updates etc. Just look at this thread when I mentioned the HDR passthrough was broken in recent Nvidia drivers. 3D lut will also attract projector users and those not wanting for fork out for software licenses for the 2019 auto-cal OLEDs

It'll also work with things like Netflix. I think I consume more than 50% of my HDR material on Netflix now which MadVR can't touch. You can get the 1080p Web-DL's sure, but not the 4k stuff.


Netflix, I think, is a wash, since it only goes up to 10-25mbps for their 4K streams.

Even if we get the Envy to tonemap, it'd be polishing a p00p.

PC-source side, this will always be the most stable, because Nvidia/AMD hardware are very well validated, and produce fairly uniform outputs, and if something goes wrong, it's testable and moddable.

Disc Player Hardware, they're unmoddable, a bit more unpredictable, and won't ever have the accuracy of madvr even with envy in the loop.

The Envy is not-Not-useful, it certainly is useful for various scenarios, but if we're after BEST QUALITY + ease of Improvements, we simply can't cut the PC out of the loop.

(And if that's the case), how does cost/ benefit ratio work out with another $600 device ontop of an ~$800 PC.


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This is of course all in the perspective of a Playback consumer device.

It seems more likely from Madshi's language that Envy may be a pro-tool, which would plug into other pro-tools which have been calibrated to reference.
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Old 21st March 2019, 22:35   #55449  |  Link
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A madVR 3DLUT I could put between my PC and my TV to calibrate absolutely everything would be very nice. If it could then notice when I was using madVR and disable itself it would be ideal.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 03:42   #55450  |  Link
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A madVR 3DLUT I could put between my PC and my TV to calibrate absolutely everything would be very nice. If it could then notice when I was using madVR and disable itself it would be ideal.
That was my original hope as well. a 4K 65^3 lut box for ~$200
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Old 22nd March 2019, 08:45   #55451  |  Link
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Netflix, I think, is a wash, since it only goes up to 10-25mbps for their 4K streams.

Even if we get the Envy to tonemap, it'd be polishing a p00p.

PC-source side, this will always be the most stable, because Nvidia/AMD hardware are very well validated, and produce fairly uniform outputs, and if something goes wrong, it's testable and moddable.
I'm very happy with Netflix HDR/Dolby Vision. They consistently have the best HDR I've ever seen. Sabrina, for example, looked phenomenal. Their creators really know how to use HDR well. The bitrate could be higher, but what I care about is content I can enjoy in the best quality. MadVR Envy will enable this on my x9000. I have no way of watching Netflix HDR on my projector in good quality currently. If there was no Widevine it'd be easy!

Other benefit a 3D LUT on every source.

My experience has been different to yours with HTPC - now I'm setup it's working fine and I know to keep my drivers rolled back, disable windows update etc. but it was a long learning curve of around 2 weeks of tinkering. It was pretty frustrating.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 12:51   #55452  |  Link
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I'm very happy with Netflix HDR/Dolby Vision.
I may be missing the point here, but the only way I can get HDR on Netflix is to either use the TV App, or use Windows 10 HDR which obviously trashes the desktop.

So how is an Envy going to fix that ?
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Old 22nd March 2019, 13:31   #55453  |  Link
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Use any of the dedicated players out there. I have an apple TV, Shield and I think my Panasonic UHD supports Netflix HDR. HDR on Windows with Netflix is poor, no proper metadata
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Old 22nd March 2019, 13:40   #55454  |  Link
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So how is an Envy going to fix that ?

I have no info on envy but I am assuming it would work with any source.

In that case you can use something like an apple tv 4k. You set atv to hd60p so your home screen looks normal(sdr). But you can also enable range matching, so that when you start hdr content on the netflix app it would simply switch to 24p hdr.

Now envy can simply do is thing on the output. Eg. Tone map the hdr to sdr etc.


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Old 22nd March 2019, 13:52   #55455  |  Link
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I have no info on envy but I am assuming it would work with any source.
k
Yeah I guess so, I have no external sources as such for that. The envy also sounds like it will cost the same as my TV, so I will just settle for the TV App I guess.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 14:14   #55456  |  Link
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Yeah I guess so, I have no external sources as such for that. The envy also sounds like it will cost the same as my TV, so I will just settle for the TV App I guess.
That's the confusing issue atm, as a Pro-tool, the envy works fine, since source agnostic might be a must.

As a entertainment consumer device , The price/ performance favors HTPC.

For consumers HTPC has a large upperhand because it does things other than movies. So if you got $600 extra, you can get Envy for movies, or 2080gtx for Movies and Games.

Maybe madshi will make an Envy-Lite, or Mad-Lut, Lutbox for $200..
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Old 22nd March 2019, 14:36   #55457  |  Link
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As a entertainment consumer device , The price/ performance favors HTPC
Unfortunately, the future doesn't favor HTPCs, as streaming services are losting features on them and are generally terrible UX on a 10ft PC (they are designed for mouse usage most of the time), nevermind that you basically cannot run them through madVR anyway.
And even if you're sailing the high seas, 4K HDR content is not always available, since thats using the highest protections they have.

If you watch a lot of Netflix, Amazon Prime etc, then a $50 FireTV is just so much nicer.

And any other form of content is slowly receding.

So basically, a HTPC may be nicer in some aspects, but its all irrelevant if the content isn't even available, and a HTPC also does no good if you can't use madVR in the first place.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 15:03   #55458  |  Link
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Maybe madshi will make an Envy-Lite, or Mad-Lut, Lutbox for $200..
That would be sweeeeeeeeeeeet :-)
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Old 22nd March 2019, 18:20   #55459  |  Link
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Unfortunately, the future doesn't favor HTPCs, as streaming services are losting features on them and are generally terrible UX on a 10ft PC (they are designed for mouse usage most of the time), nevermind that you basically cannot run them through madVR anyway.
And even if you're sailing the high seas, 4K HDR content is not always available, since thats using the highest protections they have.

If you watch a lot of Netflix, Amazon Prime etc, then a $50 FireTV is just so much nicer.

And any other form of content is slowly receding.

So basically, a HTPC may be nicer in some aspects, but its all irrelevant if the content isn't even available, and a HTPC also does no good if you can't use madVR in the first place.


You wouldn't do it this way, but, we can put a 2080gtx Inside a $200 , (old sandybridge/ivy bridge/haswell boxes), totaling $800, and it will work just as well as any high end HTPC with regard to madvr.

Netflix is a valid case if tone mapping is that important to the user.

But overall, someone who watches alot of netflix is less commonly the target for a High-End video device, since netflix has low bitrate, ontop of poor quality control on the encoding side.

Could Envy improve whatever comes out of that, SURE, but benefits are iffy.

4K hdr bluray is not going away anytime soon. They've invested massive infrastructure in this.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 20:07   #55460  |  Link
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I am watching Netflix on Xbox One X since it gives me HDR and Atmos. I was using the shield before which I would still use if Netflix would run with Atmos. Netflix HDR and Atmos on PC app is a mess especcially with a JVC and pink bug.

So being able to have whatever source being processed by a madvr box would be great

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