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Old 22nd August 2018, 09:49   #6301  |  Link
LigH
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Was --pmode useful in your case? It does not cause a speedup in general, it depends on the circumstances, I read...
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Old 22nd August 2018, 14:53   #6302  |  Link
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Was --pmode useful in your case? It does not cause a speedup in general, it depends on the circumstances, I read...
i *think* it improves my cpu saturation. but only on 1080p or lower using 24 threads. wasn't able to get a constant saturation without it.
with 4k content everything is fine even without pmode.
i didn't really make any extensive speed tests though.

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Old 22nd August 2018, 21:55   #6303  |  Link
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i *think* it improves my cpu saturation. but only on 1080p or lower using 24 threads. wasn't able to get a constant saturation without it.
with 4k content everything is fine even without pmode.
i didn't really make any extensive speed tests though.
Pmode can easily increase CPU utilization AND reduce encoding speed if you donít have a whole lot of unused cores when running without it. Iíve seen it speed up encoding 400x224 on a 32 logical core system, but never 1080p or above. But Iíve not tried on anything with >36 logical cores.

Pmode can also theoretically increase quality a bit, since a lot of its parallel work is stuff that would normally have gotten skipped due to early exit. Occasionally itíll find something better than what was found before the early exit. Iíve never seen it really make a material difference compared to veryslow or placebo.
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Old 22nd August 2018, 22:32   #6304  |  Link
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Pmode can easily increase CPU utilization AND reduce encoding speed if you don’t have a whole lot of unused cores when running without it. I’ve seen it speed up encoding 400x224 on a 32 logical core system, but never 1080p or above. But I’ve not tried on anything with >36 logical cores.

Pmode can also theoretically increase quality a bit, since a lot of its parallel work is stuff that would normally have gotten skipped due to early exit. Occasionally it’ll find something better than what was found before the early exit. I’ve never seen it really make a material difference compared to veryslow or placebo.
yes my feeling was that it might be slower with pmode, but as i said i never actually did speed tests, just looked at cpu usage lol. my bad...
maybe it's a good idea for me to just remove it.
but going to slower is not an option (for me) - slow -> slower almost increases encoding time 100%

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Old 22nd August 2018, 23:09   #6305  |  Link
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yes my feeling was that it might be slower with pmode, but as i said i never actually did speed tests, just looked at cpu usage lol. my bad...
maybe it's a good idea for me to just remove it.
but going to slower is not an option (for me) - slow -> slower almost increases encoding time 100%
Yeah, it is quite likely that pmode is slowing you down a bunch and turning it off could get you that 100% speed back.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 00:27   #6306  |  Link
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I'm having a discussion with someone online and they are citing an early 2016 discussion about 264 vs 265.
Does anyone know if there's a much more recent comparison of 264 to 265?

My assumption is, by now, with the correct settings used in the encoder, 265 should basically provide a superior image at the same bitrate, almost always (until the returns diminish at very high bitrates)
Surely, that is now the case?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 05:41   #6307  |  Link
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h.264 is still the grain king if you don't care the blocking it have.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 06:42   #6308  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
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Originally Posted by alex1399 View Post
h.264 is still the grain king if you don't care the blocking it have.
Unless we're talking 4K, particularly for HDR.

If you can't afford archival level bitrates, HEVC is dramatically better in almost every case, especially at high resolution.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:20   #6309  |  Link
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Originally Posted by vidschlub View Post
I'm having a discussion with someone online and they are citing an early 2016 discussion about 264 vs 265.
Does anyone know if there's a much more recent comparison of 264 to 265?
Video Codecs Comparison 2017,
http://www.compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/hevc_2017/


Although they probably didn't compare 10-bit x265 vs 8bit x264 (x264 10-bit isn't supported by hardware-decoders!).
EDIT: OK, Nvidia GeForce 950/960 or better PC GPU supports full H265/HEVC 10-bit hardware-decoding, it doesn't support H264 10-bit hardware-decoding.

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Old 23rd August 2018, 12:47   #6310  |  Link
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Although they probably didn't compare 10-bit x265 vs 8bit x264 (x264 10-bit isn't supported by hardware-decoders!).
I think that mobile SOCs include HW decoding of H.264 10bit.

Probably Smart TVs, too.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 12:56   #6311  |  Link
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I think that mobile SOCs include HW decoding of H.264 10bit.

Probably Smart TVs, too.
I have 2 recent Smart TVs (Samsung and Panasonic) and 3 blu-ray players (2 from Samsung and 1 from LG). The Samsung BD players are UHD models

None of the devices above support 10-bit H.264 decoding
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Old 23rd August 2018, 14:47   #6312  |  Link
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Originally Posted by vidschlub View Post
I'm having a discussion with someone online and they are citing an early 2016 discussion about 264 vs 265.
Does anyone know if there's a much more recent comparison of 264 to 265?

My assumption is, by now, with the correct settings used in the encoder, 265 should basically provide a superior image at the same bitrate, almost always (until the returns diminish at very high bitrates)
Surely, that is now the case?
I would say yes, if speed is not considered. But when tuning x265 to be as fast as x264 it falls behind imo.

Most of the test I've done has been in the "rip" catagory, I found that x265 --slow --no-sao --crf 18 has very similar fidelity to x264 --slower --tune film --crf 18 for 1080p bluray re-encoding with a 20-30% bitrate reduction. Most test I've done has been on tears of steel, which is a pretty good source for "general" film content imo, but it could ofc be sources were these numbers dont apply at all (but it has been the case on a few other random blurays I've tested on as well).

Last edited by excellentswordfight; 23rd August 2018 at 14:52.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 20:04   #6313  |  Link
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I hope that they finish the Video Codecs Comparison 2018 on that website soon. They've released an Express Report 2018, but it doesn't include "Ultra Ripping: Comparison on extremely slow presets" yet,
http://www.compression.ru/video/code...son/hevc_2018/
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Old 25th August 2018, 16:13   #6314  |  Link
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Originally Posted by froggy1 View Post
I have 2 recent Smart TVs (Samsung and Panasonic) and 3 blu-ray players (2 from Samsung and 1 from LG). The Samsung BD players are UHD models

None of the devices above support 10-bit H.264 decoding
Weird, I own a cheap settop box (Opticum Sloth Combo Plus) and it decodes H.264 10-bit as well as H.265 12-bit. Maybe because of its chipset (Sunplus 1507). Most such devices have Ali chipsets and maybe they cannot decode such material.
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Old 25th August 2018, 17:44   #6315  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Przemek_Sperling View Post
Weird, I own a cheap settop box (Opticum Sloth Combo Plus) and it decodes H.264 10-bit as well as H.265 12-bit. Maybe because of its chipset (Sunplus 1507). Most such devices have Ali chipsets and maybe they cannot decode such material.
I don't know the chipsets of my devices, but you are most likely correct. That said, there are quite a few devices (TVs, BD players & co) that don't support 10 bit H.264. My Samsung TV, however, supports decoding of 10 bits HEVC but not 10 bits H.264. I haven't tested 12 bits HEVC on it yet
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Old 26th August 2018, 16:33   #6316  |  Link
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Using --no-sao for a tune film is imo valid. In my experience no-sao does improve fine detail alot with almost no negative effects for general "film" content with lower crf values. Preset slow together with no-sao is imo enough for detail retention now days. Not sure what setting does it, but I find preset Medium to be way softer then preset slow (imo there should only be a bitrate difference between them when doing a CRF encode, but it doesnt work like that I guess).

I have found sao to be usefull for both animation and low bitrate content though (as expected).


To add to this, I see around 70-80% utilization on dual Xeon E5-2680 v3 (48t) systems for 2160p content using preset slow. Imo that is a very reasonable ammount of multithread performance. For 1080p I wouldnt bother with anything more then 8-12C. Start using chunk-encoding if better multithread utilization is needed.

But I still think Atak question is valid, does 2990wx need any NUMA tweaking to perform correctly?
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Not just 64 thread CPU, at work I have two Intel Xeon E5-2660V4 14c/28th for a total of 28c/56th and I can't still saturate both CPUs with a 2160p 10bit HDR10 content encoded with preset --medium and bluray compatible specs.


Some consumers are moving to AMD, but the majority of businesses are using Intel Xeon CPUs (my company included), so that's what they ask for optimizations.
They are simply following the market needs, nothing more.
I recently did some investigations around x265 scaling with 128 cores. You might be interested in the results https://www.singhkays.com/blog/x265-...-hdr-azure-vm/



Quote:
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No it is not too low. Dual socket (2 NUMA) Intel Xeon E5-4660 v3 (56 threads total) still scales much better than single socket (4 NUMA) 2990WX.
It would probably scale even better if I set numa pools manually.

According to x265 documentation ( https://x265.readthedocs.io/en/default/threading.html )

Can somebody verify than I'm setting numa pools correctly in my previous post?
See my investigation above. The CPU details are in the blog post. Not sure if I can help you verify something.
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Old 26th August 2018, 17:39   #6317  |  Link
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4k veryslow is the best case scenario for core utilization. 1080p with default medium preset would require at least 8 concurrent encodes to saturate all those 128 cores.

Ps. I'm not surprised that 2160p scales up to 32 cores. If We divide 2160 by default CU of 64 then we get value of 33.75.

Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 26th August 2018 at 17:50.
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Old 27th August 2018, 08:38   #6318  |  Link
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Originally Posted by froggy1 View Post
I have 2 recent Smart TVs (Samsung and Panasonic) and 3 blu-ray players (2 from Samsung and 1 from LG). The Samsung BD players are UHD models

None of the devices above support 10-bit H.264 decoding
my nvidia shields, sony led tv (4k non-hdr) and lg oled tv (4k hdr) all decode it just fine, even my phone (samsung s5) plays them.
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Old 27th August 2018, 10:15   #6319  |  Link
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Originally Posted by K.i.N.G View Post
my nvidia shields, sony led tv (4k non-hdr) and lg oled tv (4k hdr) all decode it just fine, even my phone (samsung s5) plays them.
With the exception of the two Samsung BD players, all my other devices are Full HD only. I must have bad luck because none can decode 10 bits H.264, including the Samsung BD players that say "file unsupported" when trying to feed them 10 bit H.264

That said, it's not important for me since I moved over to 10 bits HEVC which is decodable on the Samsung BD players *and* my Full HD Samsung TV. My Panasonic TV (also FHD) doesn't support it so I use one of the BD players to decode and feed it. I also prefer using the BD players to stream to my TVs as I can use Bitstream passthrough for the audio, which I can't when using the TVs directly (they internally convert it to AC3 - I use Toslink to feed audio from TVs to Yamaha receiver. Neither Toslink nor ARC supports lossless audio passthrough)
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Old 28th August 2018, 18:05   #6320  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
4k veryslow is the best case scenario for core utilization. 1080p with default medium preset would require at least 8 concurrent encodes to saturate all those 128 cores.

Ps. I'm not surprised that 2160p scales up to 32 cores. If We divide 2160 by default CU of 64 then we get value of 33.75.
There is a 3 CTU lag in frame parallelism in x265, however. Multithreading performance tuning in x265 is a pretty complex matter. I find this invaluable:

https://x265.readthedocs.io/en/default/threading.html

(x265 has the best documentation of any codec, ever!)
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