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Old 24th January 2013, 07:09   #17141  |  Link
Niyawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Wanezhiling is correct, if I click on the reset default settings batch file the internal filters are still enabled. If I disable the internal filters and click on the default settings batch they're enabled again.
Make sure you run in Admin. I did it only by double click and it didn't reset anything.
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:15   #17142  |  Link
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can i get an opinion on a graphics card? its main usage is going to be for mpc-hc with lav cuvid, and madvr

link

thanks
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:25   #17143  |  Link
cyberbeing
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As others have already confirmed, 3:2 IVTC is now nice and smooth @96Hz & @120Hz with the TS samples I sent you. Thanks.

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added "repeated frames" OSD info (only when framerate = refresh rate)
How does this differ from the "delayed frames" OSD stat?
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:26   #17144  |  Link
ryrynz
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Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
Make sure you run in Admin. I did it only by double click and it didn't reset anything.
It's definitely doing something, if I disable the filters the reset enables them which wouldn't be happening if there was an issue with permissions.
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:37   #17145  |  Link
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It's definitely doing something, if I disable the filters the reset enables them which wouldn't be happening if there was an issue with permissions.
That's strange indeed. I double clicked like you did, and everything was on default, internal filters were disabled. Only madshi can look into it and see if it's a bug or something.

A question for everyone, this is a somewhat unrelated, but if I were to use madVR + LAV Video decoder with DXVA2 enabled, which one would be the best option: native or copy-back? I have an Intel GMA 4500MHD. Also madshi, seems like if I use (copy-back) the OSD doesn't show the [DXVA2] on it.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:10   #17146  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
A question for everyone, this is a somewhat unrelated, but if I were to use madVR + LAV Video decoder with DXVA2 enabled, which one would be the best option: native or copy-back?
Personally i prefer copy-back, because its just less hassle and allows all madVR features, like IVTC which currently doesn't work with Native.
On some GPUs madVR will even do its own "copy-back" internally because its currently the only way for it to get maximum quality, but i think thats mostly limited to NVIDIA, IIRC. In this case, copy-back or CUVID is even more to be recommended, as the performance penality is nearly the same, and using cb/cuvid gives you the flexibility again.

However, you should only use Copy-Back if you have a SSE 4.1 capable CPU (introduced with Penryn Core2 models, on the AMD side only with Bulldozer)

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Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
seems like if I use (copy-back) the OSD doesn't show the [DXVA2] on it.
Thats to be expected, and part of the whole idea that is copy-back. With copy-back, all DXVA stuff stays internal to the decoder, and the outside world has no clue that DXVA is being used - which means it has the full flexibility of a software decoder and none of the DXVA Native limitations.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 24th January 2013 at 08:24.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:39   #17147  |  Link
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DXVA copy-back costs too much than Intel GMA 4500MHD has, which is only about 1/3 performance of a slow card like GT520/HD6450...
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:26   #17148  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
Should we just leave deinterlacing at default now instead of forcing film mode?
Nothing has changed. If you know that the content is film, forcing film mode will do proper IVTC (60i -> 24p) while with default mode you'll get DXVA deinterlacing (60i -> 60p). Same as with previous versions...

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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Madshi, your Jinc Chroma speed enhancement didn't make it into this build? an 0.86 enhancement then?
Not sure what you mean? The Jinc Chroma speed enhancement has been built in since v0.85.5. See changelog.

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Originally Posted by wanezhiling View Post
Seems still be enabled by default.
Oh. I can reproduce it. Weird, will have to double check...

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Originally Posted by robpdotcom View Post
Should this also work when IVTC'ing, and the refresh rate is 23Hz?
Oh well, it should, but I'm not sure if it does. Will have to check...

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Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
Hey madshi, since it's a new build I should mention something. Do you plan to fix the issue with ReClock in 24p@60Hz that you mentioned some time ago any soon?
Which bug do you mean? I don't remember...

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Originally Posted by truexfan81 View Post
can i get an opinion on a graphics card? its main usage is going to be for mpc-hc with lav cuvid, and madvr

link

thanks
Please no. You should at least pick a card with GDDR5 memory, IMHO. I'd go no lower than a 650. If you want to use Jinc AR for both chroma and image upscaling with 60p (or natively interlaced 60i) content then you might even want to consider a 660. However, if you're willing to make a few compromises, a 650 should do nicely. Just don't expect to be able to crank up all settings to the max with high framerate videos.

P.S: Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings: A 640 with DDR3 memory will still be able to run madVR "just fine" (with reasonable settings). I just think that for a very modest price increase you can get a quite big performance boost by going for a 650 with GDDR5.

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How does this differ from the "delayed frames" OSD stat?
A "delayed frame" means that madVR had planned to present a frame for VSync number X but for some reason things went wrong and presentation was done at VSync number X+1 (or +2, +3, ...) instead. Basically a "delayed frame" is a presentation accident. It should usually only occur in windowed/overlay mode (and only if the refresh rate is higher than the movie framerate), but not in fullscreen exclusive mode.

A "repeated frame" happens if madVR has to show one frame for 2 VSync intervals, in order to keep audio and video in sync. So this is not an accident but it's a planned frame repeat which is necessary because framerate and refresh rate mismatch.

So when *not* using Reclock, you should try to optimize your refresh rate so that during the runtime of a movie you get max 1-2 frame drops or repeats. If you get frame drops, your refresh rate is too low. If you get frame repeats, your refresh rate is too high. This all only applies if the movie framerate and the refresh rate are reasonably close. If you use your 120Hz output, this all doesn't apply. For reasons of non-optimal refresh rate you'll never get either frame drops or frame repeats listed in the OSD when using 120Hz because there'll be so many frame repeats (120-24 = 96 per second) that it just doesn't make sense to even count them.
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:42   #17149  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Please no. You should at least pick a card with GDDR5 memory, IMHO. I'd go no lower than a 650. If you want to use Jinc AR for both chroma and image upscaling with 60p (or natively interlaced 60i) content then you might even want to consider a 660. However, if you're willing to make a few compromises, a 650 should do nicely. Just don't expect to be able to crank up all settings to the max with high framerate videos.

P.S: Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings: A 640 with DDR3 memory will still be able to run madVR "just fine" (with reasonable settings). I just think that for a very modest price increase you can get a quite big performance boost by going for a 650 with GDDR5.
ok madshi how about this?
link
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:44   #17150  |  Link
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The Jinc Chroma speed enhancement has been built in since v0.85.5.
Must have read an old post recently. Nevermind!
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:55   #17151  |  Link
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Oh. I can reproduce it. Weird, will have to double check...
Thanks for confirming it.
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Old 24th January 2013, 11:43   #17152  |  Link
Dodgexander
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Just a couple of things, what kind of upscaling should a Radeon 6870 handle? Seems Jinc4 is the best you can get.

Another thing, when using exclusive mode, with my secondry monitor sometimes applications get "stuck". They fade, and become unresponsive until I take madvr out of exclusive mode by right clicking on mpc. Is there any reason this is happening? Seems a driver thing.

Disabling desktop composition does the trick, but is there away to keep it without this happening?

Disabling exclusive mode results in dropped frames sadly...
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Old 24th January 2013, 14:47   #17153  |  Link
Jong
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Hi Madshi, just looking at your new "repeated frames" counter.

When playing R1 DVDs @59.94Hz with JRiver MC's Videoclock I get 12 repeated frames counted every second. See attached screenshot.

http://sdrv.ms/Tr1d3C

The clock deviation eventually converges on 0.00000%. In the link the rendering time is pretty close to the frame time, but I have repeated with more basic upscaling, so rendering takes <5ms and still the same 12 repeated frames a second. Seems it is not caused by over-processing.

Can't say I can notice them so maybe it is an error in the OSD? On the other hand, with so many, they may be hard to spot combined with pulldown judder. On the other, other hand maybe it is just counting the pulldown frames?! If the latter, I guess it could also be intentional, although a little confusing if it is.

Of course I can do a log, but it might be better for you to see if you see the same with a R1 DVD.

Last edited by Jong; 24th January 2013 at 14:59.
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:02   #17154  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by truexfan81 View Post
ok madshi how about this?
link
Looks much better.

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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
Just a couple of things, what kind of upscaling should a Radeon 6870 handle? Seems Jinc4 is the best you can get.
Jinc3 AR is all you need. No need to use higher taps for Jinc.

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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
Another thing, when using exclusive mode, with my secondry monitor sometimes applications get "stuck". They fade, and become unresponsive until I take madvr out of exclusive mode by right clicking on mpc. Is there any reason this is happening? Seems a driver thing.

Disabling desktop composition does the trick, but is there away to keep it without this happening?
Not sure why that is happening. I don't remember anyone else reporting this, so it might be something specific to your PC/installation somehow.

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Originally Posted by Jong View Post
Hi Madshi, just looking at your new "repeated frames" counter.

When playing R1 DVDs @59.94Hz with JRiver MC's Videoclock I get 12 repeated frames counted every second. See attached screenshot.

http://sdrv.ms/Tr1d3C

The clock deviation eventually converges on 0.00000%. In the link the rendering time is pretty close to the frame time, but I have repeated with more basic upscaling, so rendering takes <5ms and still the same 12 repeated frames a second. Seems it is not caused by over-processing.

Can't say I can notice them so maybe it is an error in the OSD? On the other hand, with so many, they may be hard to spot combined with pulldown judder. On the other, other hand maybe it is just counting the pulldown frames?!

Of course I can do a log, but it might be better for you to see if you see the same with a R1 DVD.
Ah, I already know where this is coming from. If you watch a soft-telecined DVD with DXVA deinterlacing, the video stream really only has 24 encoded frames per second. madVR does double rate deinterlacing, so this is practically doubled to 48 output frames. 60-48 = 12 frames. So basically because the DVD is soft-telecined, there are only 48 deinterlaced frames per second. But the refresh rate is 60Hz, so there are 12 vsync intervals which have no unique video frames, so you get 12 repeated frames per second. Makes perfect sense. I guess in this situation the repeated frame counter isn't really useful. I'm not sure if I can easily detect this. Of course the ideal solution would be to use madVR's forced film mode.
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:06   #17155  |  Link
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i'm sure u can fix this issue but i still want to point it out:

running a 1440x1080p60i h264 ar 16/9 with dxva cp and lavfilter yadif (50/60p) my grafikcard 6770 can't handle it even with bilinear filtering. ofc the card is more then fast enough but when using dxva the card stays at 400 mhz and not the 850 mhz max power state. even when i pause the play back and start a computer game the grafikcard will still stay at 400 mhz.

without dxva cp i can use jinc 3 ar for both chroma and luma and i'm still under 14 ms render time so the card is just fast enough.

when low power grafikcards like the 6450 behaver like this there is noway for a system with the need of dxva to do it with madvr. but without dxva is should be possible.
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:17   #17156  |  Link
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@huhn, AMD cards are known to be slow with copyback (especially everything older than 7xxx). So simply don't use DXVA Copyback. Use either Native DXVA or don't use DXVA at all. There's nothing I can do about it. It's not a problem in madVR. Actually the slowness is caused inside of LAV Filters when doing the Copyback.
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:42   #17157  |  Link
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Madshi, further on repeated frames, just been playing a PAL DVD @50Hz (50.0011Hz) with Videoclock. I was surprised to see 2 repeated frames in about 20 mins. Stats say 1 frame repeat every 15 mins even with 0.00001% clock deviation. Any thoughts why this would be?

For blu-ray and mkv 720p, even sped up from 24p to 25p, the repeat rate in stats is in days (or occasional many hours).

Last edited by Jong; 24th January 2013 at 15:51.
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:43   #17158  |  Link
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are u sure the slowness is a cause of lav? it's the "same" with native(i have to encode the video in 60p to test it but the mhz still stays at 400) the card just stays at 400 mhz is not like amd is slow amd is simpling blocking the potential of the card when dxva is in used. at least that is what i see there.

but yeah there is nothing u can do about so i leave it at this maybe amd "fix" this...
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:50   #17159  |  Link
madshi
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Madshi, further on repeated frames, just been playing a PAL DVD @50Hz (50.0011Hz) with Videoclock. I was surprised to see 2 repeated frames in about 20 mins. Stats say 1 frame repeat every 15 mins even with 0.00001% clock deviation. Any thoughts why this would be?
The math is pretty simple: 50.0011Hz is 0.0011Hz too high. If you do the math, this results in 0.066 frame repeats per minute. Or one frame repeat every 15 minutes. If the clock deviation is pretty much zero, that's what it is. Try without Videoclock. It might actually result in less frame repeats. If the clock deviation is > 0% then it might counter the too-high refresh rate.

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are u sure the slowness is a cause of lav? it's the "same" with native(i have to encode the video in 60p to test it but the mhz still stays at 400) the card just stays at 400 mhz is not like amd is slow amd is simpling blocking the potential of the card when dxva is in used. at least that is what i see there.

but yeah there is nothing u can do about so i leave it at this maybe amd "fix" this...
I don't know about why the clock stays at 400. But apart from that it's a well known problem that AMD GPUs are notoriously slow with Copyback. It's less of a problem with 7xxx generation GPUs and with integrated CPU/GPU, but with older dedicated GPUs it definitely is a problem.
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Old 24th January 2013, 15:50   #17160  |  Link
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I'm sure DXVA2 Native works fine on AMD. IIRC the reason for DXVA2 Copy-Back not working well enough on older AMD cards is simply to do with their architecture.
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