Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 22nd February 2016, 22:13   #36401  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,873
I notice you say you want a display with 100% AdobeRGB for madVR. There is no content for AdobeRGB, you want 100% sRGB or DCI-P3, not any of the normal wide gamut displays. Normal wide gamut is worse than a standard 100% sRGB.

This isn't a case of the more the better, you want to match the source which is sRGB/BT.709 for Blu-ray or almost anything else and DCI-P3 for movie theaters or probably UHD Blu-rays. AdobeRGB is not for home theater/madVR.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2016, 22:22   #36402  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
I basically read all the other guides that were out there, and all of them resulted in setups that would crash for me, and the one expressed there was the one that was most stable, had best performance, and best aspect for both animated and film materials.

If you want to help me complete it, I would be glad to hear your thoughts!
This link contains all of the madVR documentation I could find:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...rt-thread.html
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2016, 22:38   #36403  |  Link
Georgel
Visual Novel Dev.
 
Georgel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
This link contains all of the madVR documentation I could find:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...rt-thread.html
Thanks a lot! I will read it one more time and see what I need to change!
Georgel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2016, 22:40   #36404  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
Thanks a lot! I will read it one more time and see what I need to change!
I'm not saying you need to change anything. I just put up the link in case you were curious.

I will add your link to that thread in the future. I bookmarked it to read at a later time.

This is the link with the set up information, correct? http://dobresculaboratories.blogspot.ca/p/page1.html
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2016, 22:44   #36405  |  Link
Georgel
Visual Novel Dev.
 
Georgel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I notice you say you want a display with 100% AdobeRGB for madVR. There is no content for AdobeRGB, you want 100% sRGB or DCI-P3, not any of the normal wide gamut displays. Normal wide gamut is worse than a standard 100% sRGB.

This isn't a case of the more the better, you want to match the source which is sRGB/BT.709 for Blu-ray or almost anything else and DCI-P3 for movie theaters or probably UHD Blu-rays. AdobeRGB is not for home theater/madVR.
Hm... I have an LG Display LP173WF4-SPF1 which reproduces about 80% sRGB, which is not enough for most video materials to look at their best. It is much better than my old simple and cheap LCD panel, which only made 50% sRGB, but a panel that is able to do 100% sRGB will look even much better.

I targeted adobeRGB because it seems to be sRGB and a bit more, and most references are made towards it, but I understand your statement.

I do work in photo editing, website making, and marketing, so I do need adobeRGB for more than video watching, but I will try to change that bit after I look once more into it.

About this, the next panel I will have (whithn a laptop) will be a AU Optronics AUO109B (B173ZAN01.0), which has 100% sRGB, 96% NTSC, 100% AdobeRGB. If someone looks for a laptop, he either has to chose the LG or the AUO one, for 17" laptops, and I guess that pointing 100% adobeRGB was a bit mis-leading, because I just wanted to point out that the AUO display has much better color reproduction.

Thanks for pointing that out!
Georgel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2016, 22:46   #36406  |  Link
Georgel
Visual Novel Dev.
 
Georgel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I'm not saying you need to change anything. I just put up the link in case you were curious.

I will add your link to that thread in the future. I bookmarked it to read at a later time.

This is the link with the set up information, correct? http://dobresculaboratories.blogspot.ca/p/page1.html
Yes.

Thanks for reading.

I try to help people with using madVR, because my final software will have to be compatible with madVR. I just love the new level of image clarity that madVR brings to video content.
Georgel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2016, 23:52   #36407  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
I basically read all the other guides that were out there, and all of them resulted in setups that would crash for me, and the one expressed there was the one that was most stable, had best performance, and best aspect for both animated and film materials.

If you want to help me complete it, I would be glad to hear your thoughts!
if you have a crash report it.

just to make it more clear your guide has a lot of total nonsense in it. there is a reason for the default settings.

telling madVR that your screen is 10 bit without using d3d11 does absolutely nothing and it can't introduce glitches without it because it is not used.

if your don't know what HDR does leave the default option there is a reason it is not 10000. 10000 it is not a reasonable option yet.

if you would play HDR with that option the picture wouldn't be really useful. so changing this give zero benefits.

the list is way longer than this.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 00:01   #36408  |  Link
Scyna
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil-doer View Post
.11 Not only had black OSD for me, it also played the video with an all black screen, until i resized or full screened the video.

.12 didnt fix the black screen issue

edit: It also depends on the video.. Some open to a black screen while others do not.

edit2: One difference I see with the problem files is that they are 1280x718
I have the same problem on an amd 290. I find that changing the image doubling from NNEDI3 to anything else fixes it.
Scyna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 00:32   #36409  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 756
Would it be possible to add an option for no scaling at all in the auto A/R settings? I don't want any zoom or scaling to happen, and in some instances - for example when playing a test pattern for chroma multiburst from the S&M bluray which has a small black border all around the pattern - some scaling is applied which destroys the picture. This happens even when I select the maximum (50 pixels) as in this instance the border is slightly larger than that.

When using the great auto A/R feature on a 16/9 screen to shift the picture up or down depending on the A/R, there is no need to ever scale or zoom if you don't want to zoom the black bars out. I don't want to do that because it's detrimental to the PQ, but there is no way to fully disable this at the moment, or I've missed it.

A pure "no scaling" or at least a 100 or 200 pixels option in that list would be great to make sure scaling/zooming is fully disabled if we don't want any in any circumstance.

Thanks!

By the way, while looking at this pattern (once I had solved the scaling issue), some of the new chroma upscaling algos fail this test. For example, reconstruction soft fails and Super-XBR above 75 significantly raises the brightness in a way which can't be good or accurate, even if it does look sharper.

So based on this test, I wouldn't use reconstruction soft or any setting for super XBR above 75 (maybe 100 pushing it, but I would suggest 75 to be safe, unless you favour sharpness at all cost). Sticking to NNEDI 32 for now with super res at 3 as I can spare the power on bluray, and as I couldn't find an alternative that looked better both with patterns and real content.
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1909 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz RGB Full 8bits
madVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25/CMC V3.2
Denon X8500H>madVR Envy Extreme>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 00:42   #36410  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,373
your playback software should be able to stop madVR from scaling.

mpc hc/be can do this.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 00:57   #36411  |  Link
evil-doer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scyna View Post
I have the same problem on an amd 290. I find that changing the image doubling from NNEDI3 to anything else fixes it.
I wonder if thats the commonality? 290x here, latest driver.

And you're right. Turning off the image doubling does fix it.

Last edited by evil-doer; 23rd February 2016 at 01:01.
evil-doer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 01:18   #36412  |  Link
hu1kamania
Registered User
 
hu1kamania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 46
Doubling 1080p with NNEDI3 and downscaling back to 1080p gives interesting results. I found SSIM 1D to look better than 2D, and definitely needed to utilize SR under upscaling refinement's to make it worth while.

Crispen edges and line thinning might be worth playing with in small doses. I didn't try Enhance Detail. Other sharpening refinements gave VERY subtle results.

Sorry if I don't have the lingo to explain things better. It seems like very fine details were a bit "smudged" compared to not supersampling. I'm not sure if this "smudging" is a good thing that helps with aliasing, or bad as it could be considered an artifact. I'm inclined to avoid supersampling until I can do more testing, but it's an exciting new feature.

Thanks madshi!
hu1kamania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 03:18   #36413  |  Link
Anima123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 469
It might not need doubling to trigger enhance features, which is too heavy, in future release of madVR?
Anima123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 05:59   #36414  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,373
image enhancements works without scaling.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 08:32   #36415  |  Link
Sunset1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 278
@ Georgel:


I just read your guide...

I think you should go more in depth with some options and you should explain, why you are using this or that option and what would be the good/bad of using it.

Asmodian got a good collection of madvr options with good advises here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787
__________________
Intel i5 6600, 16 GB DDR4, AMD Vega RX56 8 GB, Windows 10 x64, Kodi DS Player 17.6, MadVR (x64), LAV Filters (x64), XySubfilter .746 (x64)
LG 4K OLED (65C8D), Denon X-4200 AVR, Dali Zensor 5.1 Set
Sunset1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 11:45   #36416  |  Link
Georgel
Visual Novel Dev.
 
Georgel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
if you have a crash report it.

just to make it more clear your guide has a lot of total nonsense in it. there is a reason for the default settings.

telling madVR that your screen is 10 bit without using d3d11 does absolutely nothing and it can't introduce glitches without it because it is not used.

if your don't know what HDR does leave the default option there is a reason it is not 10000. 10000 it is not a reasonable option yet.

if you would play HDR with that option the picture wouldn't be really useful. so changing this give zero benefits.

the list is way longer than this.


Thanks a lot!

I looked these things over, and changed them. I will try to improve the guide as much as I can and as often as possible, because my software for video playback will rely heavily on madVR compatibility for video to look great.
Georgel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 11:46   #36417  |  Link
Georgel
Visual Novel Dev.
 
Georgel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
@ Georgel:


I just read your guide...

I think you should go more in depth with some options and you should explain, why you are using this or that option and what would be the good/bad of using it.

Asmodian got a good collection of madvr options with good advises here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787
Thanks!

I will look into it and update the guide as soon as I can with all the information I see there that might be of interest.

If you have something specific that you want me to change, feel free to tell me.
Georgel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 14:30   #36418  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
I will look into it and update the guide as soon as I can
That's great news, this thread here on d9 was meant for mVR bug reports though so maybe you could take this discussion there for instance
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 19:14   #36419  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
your playback software should be able to stop madVR from scaling.

mpc hc/be can do this.
The player has no involvement in this. If I switch to EVR-CP there is no scaling going on. It's a non-defeatable "feature" of the auto A/R option in MadVR which rescales the picture if there are small black bars around.

I love the Auto A/R feature of MadVR, so I don't want to disable it, I would just like a setting/option in the auto A/R settings that guarantees no scaling or zooming whatsoever. I don't mind if it shifts the picture up as that's what it was designed for in my case, but I don't want any scaling/zooming to ever happen, whatever the circumstances.

With the existing settings, there is some scaling/zooming if the black bars are larger than 50pixels, as this is the largest setting allowed currently.
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1909 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz RGB Full 8bits
madVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25/CMC V3.2
Denon X8500H>madVR Envy Extreme>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 23rd February 2016 at 19:17.
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2016, 19:37   #36420  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I love the Auto A/R feature of MadVR, so I don't want to disable it, I would just like a setting/option in the auto A/R settings that guarantees no scaling or zooming whatsoever. I don't mind if it shifts the picture up as that's what it was designed for in my case, but I don't want any scaling/zooming to ever happen, whatever the circumstances.

With the existing settings, there is some scaling/zooming if the black bars are larger than 50pixels, as this is the largest setting allowed currently.
If you don't want zooming with black bars, then why don't you just turn that particular feature off entirely
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.