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Old 10th September 2019, 13:53   #1321  |  Link
vidschlub
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I have a collection of about 8-15 8mm reels here my ma left me after she passed away.

Having seen the examples at the start of this thread, it feels like it would be an injustice to just hand the reels to any schmo for $10 a reel and having them convert them.

I did some reading this evening on a product called a Wolverine Pro, however it sounds like it rips at 20fps, not the original 16 or 18fps.
So I guess my question is, what's the best format to rip these films, so ensure I can clean them up in some capacity? Is 1080p enough (Wolverine Pro) - should I rip at some kind of 'literal' frame rate (actually 16 / 18 fps, or even 60fps somehow?)

I'd hate to have half blurry frames or something that can't be cleaned up.
Also, it sounds like some scanning tools 'zoom in' the film frame too close, losing some of the details in the image. I see several purists mentioning ripping the films twice, once zoomed in for the actual action and once zoomed right out allowing you to even see the film holes on the side.


What are peoples thoughts and to the op, thanks for the excellent scripts, I'm not in a position to use them yet but the results you seem to have achieved are well well impressive.
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Old 11th September 2019, 15:09   #1322  |  Link
videoFred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidschlub View Post
I did some reading this evening on a product called a Wolverine Pro,
It's a cheap device, not bad for that price. But it will never give the quality you want.

Quote:
Is 1080p enough (Wolverine Pro)
More than enough for 8mm film. Also, aspect ratio from 8mm film is 4:3. That gives 1440x1080.
I capture at 1392x1032 with my machine vision camera.
But the quality from the digital transfer is much more important than the size.

Quote:
- should I rip at some kind of 'literal' frame rate (actually 16 / 18 fps, or even 60fps somehow?)
What we need is one film frame = one digital frame. No duplicate frames.
Then play speed does not matter and can be easily changed afterwards.

Fred.
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About 8mm film:
http://www.super-8.be
Film Transfer Tutorial and example clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QBsWXKuV8
More Example clips:
http://www.vimeo.com/user678523/videos/sort:newest

Last edited by videoFred; 11th September 2019 at 15:12.
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Old 11th September 2019, 16:14   #1323  |  Link
johnmeyer
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To add and clarify to two important things VideoFred said:

1. The device must be "frame accurate" which means you get exactly one frame of film on each frame of video, without blends of adjacent frames (like you get if you just point a video camera at a movie screen), and without any flickering from a projector shutter being closed. I quickly skimmed the Woverine literature, and it does look like it is frame accurate.

2. As Fred said, you can set the speed of the playback after the capture. This is like speeding up or slowing down a movie projector: the same exact frames are shown, but they are just projected at a faster or slower speed. However, there are target speeds that should give you a result which gives you motion that is the same speed as the real-life event that was filmed. Super 8 film is always 18 fps. Sound 16mm is always 24 fps. Really old film can be any frame rate because the camera was either hand-cranked, or it used a wind-up mechanism that was often not very accurate. Having said that, most 16mm and 8mm silent film was shot at a speed around 16 fps, so that is always a good starting point.

You will find that some amateur movie cameras had a "film saver" speed which would slow down the film to 10 fps or slower. You just have to look at the result and decide whether you need to speed it up or slow it down.

BTW, your Wolverine apparently stores the captured movie in h.264 MP4 format. This is OK if you are just going to capture and view, but if you plan to edit the film, this "delivery format" is most definitely not the ideal. It usually doesn't play as smoothly on your NLE timeline as a "capture format," and it also will tend to introduce additional digital artifacts by the time you are finished with your project. This isn't a huge deal, because the artifacts will probably be fairly small (depending on how much compression the Wolverine uses), but it is most definitely not professional and not ideal.

I also agree with VideoFred that you don't need to capture or edit in full HD for 8mm film, and probably not Super 8 either. Even 16mm film can be captured at less than full HD with very little degradation. I had a chance to test this when some 1934 16mm film I had transferred was licensed to the Smithsonian Channel. They wanted to have the transfer re-done by a "Hollywood" transfer house, using a professional Spirit transfer system. I had the transfer house send the transfer to me before I sent it to the Smithsonian Channel. As I expected, their transfer, which was delivered in 1920x1080 ProRes, did a little better job on shadows than my projector/camcorder system (it was very contrasty German film stock), but the sharpness and increase in detail, while most definitely evident, was not strikingly better. It was a matter of 10-20% better (I'm trying to put my evaluation into numbers), not twice as good, or four times as good, which is how much more resolution 1920x1080 is compared to my 720x480 (non-square pixel) transfers.

Last edited by johnmeyer; 11th September 2019 at 16:18. Reason: typos
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