madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[DragonQ]

Originally Posted by Uoppi

OK. So if the GPU is detecting everything properly, progressive 25 fps PAL should never be displayed at a 50 Hz refresh rate? Just asking because 50 Hz is what I'm always getting with progressive segmented frames using madVR's automatic interlace detection. The only way to get proper playback at 25 Hz is using tags.

It will be 50 fps with each frame being shown twice - frame stepping will demonstrate this. Almost no displays will show native 25 Hz anyway so even if you force 25 fps output, your display will be showing each frame at least twice.

Something I hadn't considered is interoperability with MadVR's Smooth Motion though. If, for example, your display was set to 60 Hz and the source was 25 PsF, I am not sure if it'd produce different results with pure 25 fps or doubled-frame 50 fps.

[mogli]

Originally Posted by madshi

That's a cosmetical OSD bug. Will be fixed in the next build. You can safely ignore this, it has no meaning.

madVR v0.89.17

[...]
* fixed: repeated frames were reported although smooth motion FRC was on

I checked thoroughly and no, all it did was reporting actual repeated frames which are just omitted from the OSD now. (But from my current understanding this is to be expected with FRC, if frame rate and display rate are essentially identical.)

[GCRaistlin]

Can somebody please share his/her madVR configuration with profiles for different types of video for HD5770 and HD5750? I know that the only right guide is my own eyes but I am really my wit's end because of all these luma, chroma etc. I read the Asmodian's guide (thanks for it) but it doesn't tell which options are most important if the video card isn't very powerful.

[Uoppi]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

Almost no displays will show native 25 Hz anyway

Oh, I thought almost all current TVs do?

Windows reports both my Samsung TVs from 2008 and 2014 as supporting 25 Hz, but it's not necessarily "true" 25 Hz then? The TVs' info OSD also says 25 Hz and the manual lists 25 Hz as a supported refresh rate.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Uoppi

Windows reports both my Samsung TVs from 2008 and 2014 as supporting 25 Hz, but it's not necessarily "true" 25 Hz then? The TVs' info OSD also says 25 Hz and the manual lists 25 Hz as a supported refresh rate.

Thats likely 25Hz interlaced then. At least thats what it is on most other TVs.

[foozoor]

Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p without creating a custom resolution inside graphic card panel?

If you don't know what I mean, there is a french tutorial about custom resolution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1...ew?usp=sharing

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by foozoor

Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p without creating a custom resolution inside graphic card panel?

If you don't know what I mean, there is a french tutorial about custom resolution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1...ew?usp=sharing

Why would you want image doubling when watching native 1080p on 1080p?!?

To use upscaling refinements when not upscaling use "image enchancements" instead.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by foozoor

Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p without creating a custom resolution inside graphic card panel?

If you don't know what I mean, there is a french tutorial about custom resolution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1...ew?usp=sharing

.

You would never want to downscale and then upscale an image if that is what you are talking about.

Image enhancements are the most you could do if you would like to alter the image.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by foozoor

Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p

Zoom in one notch, madshi said he might consider SuperSampling at some point.

[ace960]

FYI, regarding the problem with playback of the next file in folder, last time mentioned here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...16#post1746816 - I moved from Windows 7 64-bit to Windows 10 64-bit and installed mpc-hc 1.7.10 (stable) and madvr 0.89.17 (both 64-bit). The problem is not present (all the same hardware). I am going to move to mpc-hc+madvr+reclock (so all 32-bit) so I will check it there too.

==
edit: Playback of next file is working ok on set windows 10 64-bit, mpc-hc 1.7.10 32-bit, madvr 0.89.17, reclock 1.8.8.5 32-bit. It is the same chain of software as before so either windows 10 helped or windows 7 re-installation would do it too.

[foozoor]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Why would you want image doubling when watching native 1080p on 1080p?!?

To use upscaling refinements when not upscaling use "image enchancements" instead.

Image enhancement is not enough.

Originally Posted by Warner306

You would never want to downscale and then upscale an image if that is what you are talking about.

Image enhancements are the most you could do if you would like to alter the image.

The interest is to do "downsampling" without custom resolution or avisynth.
I am sure madshi already tried to implement this and I wanted to hear what he thinks about it.

[RainyDog]

Originally Posted by foozoor

Image enhancement is not enough.

The interest is to do "downsampling" without custom resolution or avisynth.
I am sure madshi already tried to implement this and I wanted to hear what he thinks about it.

You wouldn't be downsampling in the way you do for gaming though.

With gaming it involves rendering the image and assets at a higher native resolution then downsampling to your displays resolution.

With 1080p video on a 1080p display, to upscale/line-double to a higher resolution then downscale back to 1080p is not a good idea at all. You'd just be introducing scaling artifacts in both the upscale and downscale for the sake of it.

[Manni]

Has anyone tried to use MadVR in 10bits FSE mode to display HDR content to an HDR compatible display?
Is there any chance it would work if the PC was set to RGB 4:4:4 and PC Levels?
Or is there no way to get this to work until GPU, drivers and software handle it properly?
As MadVR is currently the only way to display 10bits content, I guess that's the only candidate on a PC.
I would want to try demo content like the Exodus and the Life of Pi trailers available (HEVC, 10bits, HDR, UHD).
MPC-BE and MadVR seem to struggle a bit more than PowerDVD 15 with HEVC content on my GPU, but as PDV15 doesn't support 10bits that rules it out.
Thanks if anyone has tried or has any ideas/suggestions.
I'd like to avoid having to buy a Sony 4K server just to try this out

[nevcairiel]

You would need to tell the display that you are sending it HDR content - and that is assuming display can even accept HDR in RGB (in contrast to YCbCr which they would otherwise get from a STB). No software that I know of can tell a display this at this point.

[huhn]

there is currently no HDR support and 10 bit doesn't change this.

the problem is the different gamma curve and the TV doesn't know about this nor can madVR correct it and than send it to the TV

[Manni]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

You would need to tell the display that you are sending it HDR content - and that is assuming display can even accept HDR in RGB (in contrast to YCbCr which they would otherwise get from a STB). No software that I know of can tell a display this at this point.

Originally Posted by huhn

there is currently no HDR support and 10 bit doesn't change this.

the problem is the different gamma curve and the TV doesn't know about this nor can madVR correct it and than send it to the TV

Thanks both, but there are workarounds for this as long as the content is sent properly.

First, you can switch the display manually to HDR mode even if the source doesn't support HDMI 2.0a.

This is what Sony and JVC did at IFA/CEDIA when demoing HDR content using the Sony FMP-X10 as a source, which doesn't support HDMI 2.0a (unlike their HDR displays). They only had to switch the display to HDR mode so that the correct PQ Gamma curve would be applied and the levels would be interpreted properly, along with the HDR metadata. The new Sony 520/665ES even does this on their slow HDMI 1.4 bandwidth chipset, so a proper HDMI 2.0 chipset isn't even necessary, you just need the HDMI 2.0a profile to be implemented on the display.

You can also use the HD Fury Integral to make a non HDR compatible source send the HDR flag so that the display switches to HDR mode. This is achieved either using the GUI on a PC, or an Android (and soon iOS) app. They even offer an option to use CEC to hijack the SP/LP keys on a remote and use these to switch HDR on and off. They have lots of really funky HDR options to inject HDR metadata in the chain. They even plan to add HDR support to non HDR compatible display, but that's not implemented yet. Highly recommended if you want to play with this (and get rid of HDCP 2.2 as well to display HDCP 2.2 protected sources like the Roku 4, the NVidia Shield, the Amazon Fire TV or an upcoming UHD Bluray player to non HDCP 2.2 displays/AVRs).

Anyway, this is why I'm focusing on the PC being able to send the 10bits HEVC HDR content untouched.

Is this possible with MadVR in 10bits FSE and the current versions of LAV/MPC-BE, and if yes in which mode would you suggest the drivers/MadVR should be set?

My guess would be RGB 4:4:4 10bits for the driver, to avoid a conversion to YBC before the content even leaves the PC, and then having both the driver and MadVR set to PC levels (0-255) and LAV set to untouched to get a chance to display the correct levels. The display would be set to RGB Enhanced (PC Levels) as well to all a direct input.

All this should be doable at 23/24p even with a 2.0 level B HDMI out, although my HD7870 switches to 8bits RGB 4:4:4 when in UHD even at 23/24p, so I'm planning to get the upcoming Club3D active DisplayPort 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 adapter to get a full 18gb/s HDMI port (with HDCP 2.2, not that I will need it) and get more flexibility with output modes at various refresh rates.

What do you think?

[huhn]

there is no correct PQ gamma curve they can be different with each file. you can choice a different max luma value to use the "bit" more effectively on what the source has.

and the next problem is the different types of HDR. usually a display only supports one type. i never heard of a display supporting all or even 2 types of HDR yet.

[chros]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Thats likely 25Hz interlaced then. At least thats what it is on most other TVs.

Hm, my 5 year old TV reports 23p,24p,25p,29p,59p,60p and couple of other interlaced resolution via at least 1 hdmi port. And madVR can correctly switch between them.
I don't lot of interlaced content, just sometimes some UK caps, that reporting interlaced flag, but I disabled that functionality in madVR, since I don't see any difference (probably the interlaced flag is set during broadcast).

Originally Posted by Manni

I would want to try demo content like the Exodus and the Life of Pi trailers available (HEVC, 10bits, HDR, UHD).

Interesting, can you provide links for them?
Thanks

[Manni]

Originally Posted by huhn

there is no correct PQ gamma curve they can be different with each file. you can choice a different max luma value to use the "bit" more effectively on what the source has.

and the next problem is the different types of HDR. usually a display only supports one type. i never heard of a display supporting all or even 2 types of HDR yet.

I'm talking HDR10, as none of these files uses Dolby Vision, Technicolor or Philips HDR and this is what the JVCs support.

Please, can you stick to answering the question? Thanks.

I'm asking is there a way to get a file encoded in HDR10, HEVC, 10bits, UHD out to a compatible display which is able to display that content properly provided it's not destroyed by the player/driver/renderer/decoder. Let me deal with the calibration side of it

By the way the new JVCs allow you to specify in their settings the correct value for peak white so that they can translate the content mastered to 1000nits to whatever you can get on their projectors (probably closer to 100-150nits at best). Shame HDR at home is mastered for panels and not for projectors. I'd have preferred to get content mastered to 100nits for peak white, as for HDR cinema, but that wouldn't help much with panels used in a living room with ambient light, which is clearly their main target.

[Manni]

Originally Posted by chros

Interesting, can you provide links for them?
Thanks

Sure, http://demo-uhd3d.com/ in the UHD HDR section.