Evaluation of HEVC decoders (SW, Hybrid and HW)

[CruNcher]

Doesn't mean much read the footnotes and it also doesn't explain how the Decoding is actually implemented that's entirely up to Nvidia

* HEVC 10/12 bit encoding SW support coming in Video Codec SDK 8.0
** Max resolution support is limited to selected Pascal chips
*** VP8 decode support is limited to selected Pascal chips

Thats important but they don't say exactly which they keep it in the dark

Even as a Member you cant seem to access

https://developer.nvidia.com/video-e...support-matrix

currently

[wanezhiling]

Originally Posted by GTPVHD

Can someone with GP104 or GP106 install the latest Nvidia 375.95 or later drivers and run the latest DXVA Checker to see if those GPUs support VP9 Profile2?

http://i.imgur.com/m20eY2v.jpg
No luck, same 375.95 driver

[CruNcher]

Originally Posted by GTPVHD

** Max resolution support is limited to selected Pascal chips
*** VP8 decode support is limited to selected Pascal chips

It doesn't say anything about VP9 10bit Profile2 support, don't need to be snarky and a troll.

You really don't understand how VPX works.

Though 1070/1080 GP104 is not so important GP106 1060 is more important

[NikosD]

It looks like GP107 has the most advanced video decoder right now, even more than Kabylake because i have never seen anywhere that Kaby supports 12bit HEVC which is the only thing missing though.

On the other hand, we have to see also HW encoding capabilities especially for HEVC and of course speed.

My opinion is that Kaby is faster than Pascal in all formats supported by both.

Also desktop Kabylake supports HDCP 2.2, it's not like Kabylake for laptops.

We'll see in less than two months.

[CruNcher]

Of course it will be faster it doesn't have to fight like Pascal for Performance on the PC but wait for the new Pascal Tegra and how it will kill it

Though on Mobile Pascal it could look slighty different also

i want to see the new Kabylake based Atom in Action for 200$ complete system


I find it great that Nvidia by the way as mostly the first advises this

Performance represents measured average performance and quality of different classes of videos (camcorder, gaming, screen, synthetic, and telepresence). Performance may vary based on OS and software versions, and motherboard configuration.

[eddman]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

Doesn't mean much read the footnotes and it also doesn't explain how the Decoding is actually implemented that's entirely up to Nvidia



Thats important but they don't say exactly which they keep it in the dark

Even as a Member you cant seem to access

https://developer.nvidia.com/video-e...support-matrix

currently

I think those footnotes are in regard to GP100 chips which are feature set G.

If GP102, 104, 106 and 107 chips had different hardware accelerating capabilities, nvidia would not have used the same feature set designation, H in this case, for all of them.


http://developer.download.nvidia.com..._ProgGuide.pdf

Page 8. GP100 is listed separately from others. It seems the only difference is that GP100 cannot do 8K coding.




Tesla P100 devices, which use GP100 chips, are listed as feature set G:

http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree8...rtedchips.html




I think the reason for 1050 cards being VP9 10-bit enabled, is down to drivers. Perhaps nvidia is yet to enable it for other Pascal cards.

Either that, or nvidia made a mistake in feature set naming and GP107 is actually feature set I or something.

[CruNcher]

If GP104, 106 and 107 chips had different hardware accelerating capabilities, nvidia would not have used the same feature set designation, H in this case, for all of them.

This is exactly what suprises me currently but anyway it could support it but maybe not fixed function but via Nvidias CUDA Research Decoder though it's unlikely they would hit the same performance then on AVG Joe Consumer Cards.

I think the reason for 1050 cards being VP9 10-bit enabled, is down to drivers. Perhaps nvidia is yet to enable it for other Pascal cards.

Possible but Review time is long over

Either that, or nvidia made a mistake in feature set naming and GP107 is actually feature set I or something.

Would be a funny Intern error again of course

[eddman]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

maybe not fixed function but via Nvidias CUDA Research Decoder

You mean VP9 10-bit? Hmm, yes, maybe it's just hybrid decoding, but even if that's the case, it should be possible for nvidia to enable it on all feature set H cards with future drivers unless, again, they made a mistake and GP107 is a higher feature set chip.

[CruNcher]

yep it's not bad performing on the HEVC side of things at all up of course until a certain complexity ratio and they surely could have improved it even further but they just stooped.

So it would be nice to see how they do with VP9 Decoding on GP104/GP106 with it



It makes me very curious what they reach so far on their entirely own GPU optimized Codec R&D

[NikosD]

Please don't forget that GP107 is not like the other Pascal processors.

They are manufactured in different process 14nm, instead of 16nm, by Samsung.

So it is very much possible to have really different fixed-fuction video decoder inside, that Nvidia should mention of course.

[Yups]

I wonder if the decoding/encoding speed/quality differs from bigger Pascal cards, beside VP9 profile2 of course. As a GTX 1080 owner it's a bit disapppointing that the bigger cards are less capable once again, same with Maxwell v2. Do we have DXVA checker screenshots from Polaris and Bristol Bridge with current drivers?

[eddman]

Originally Posted by NikosD

Please don't forget that GP107 is not like the other Pascal processors.

They are manufactured in different process 14nm, instead of 16nm, by Samsung.

So it is very much possible to have really different fixed-fuction video decoder inside, that Nvidia should mention of course.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two chips can be built on entirely different processes and by different manufacturers and yet have the exact same hardware capabilities.

It's all up to the designer of those chips. If nvidia made them to have the same features, then they have the same features.

If turns out that GP107's video capabilities are in fact higher than other Pascal chips, then it was a deliberate design decision by nvidia to upgrade the video block, and not because GP107 is 14nm and the others are not.

So far all Pascal chips, except for GP100, are feature set H, so they SHOULD be the same, but since nvidia sometimes messes things up for no reason, I wouldn't be surprised if GP107 turns out to be feature set H2 or I or something.

We have to wait and see.

[CruNcher]

Im especially interested how it looks on the Mobile Parts now get more and more curius of that because of the weak reviews on such very specific things

Can't wait to see NikosD GCN UVD Polaris evaluation there at least i know someone with the capabilities of understanding it does it right even if im not such a fan of a simple synthetic benchmark and we have the winner approach like NikosD follows in it's core and shares unfortunately with most reviewers these days

[NikosD]

Originally Posted by eddman

One has nothing to do with the other. Two chips can be built on entirely different processes and by different manufacturers and yet have the exact same hardware capabilities.

Originally Posted by Yups

As a GTX 1080 owner it's a bit disapppointing that the bigger cards are less capable once again, same with Maxwell v2.

It is a very well known tactic since ATI HD 2000 series and probably in older cards too, that smaller GPU chips by manufacturing process (14nm vs 16nm) or by number of shaders (1080 vs 1050) can hold bigger/better video decoders.

It's all about size and space for video decoding inside the GPU chip.

Of course from a commercial point of view, very few people really care about video transcoding features of a card like 1080.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Yups

As a GTX 1080 owner it's a bit disapppointing that the bigger cards are less capable once again, same with Maxwell v2

(Assuming its actually a newer decoder in GP107: )

1080/1070 is about half a year older now, so advances can be expected eventually, even if technically still in the same "series".
They could delay these additions until the next full gen, but we wouldn't really benefit from that either, would we.

Its not really about the 1050 being smaller and therefor having more space, its just 6 month newer. The next gen "big" cards will have the same new "bigger" decoder as well.

[CruNcher]

And because of the Higher Shadercount they calculate if it wouldn't be more feasible to use these Shaders for Decoding and stress the CPU therefore a bit more
Nevcariel these decisions are way over a year old what we see is the turn out of simple economic balance and Design decisions about the VPX target and practical goals for specific release schedule it's like partly planing into the future with predicted and existing knowledge of how it will turn out

[eddman]

Originally Posted by NikosD

It is a very well known tactic since ATI HD 2000 series and probably in older cards too, that smaller GPU chips by manufacturing process (14nm vs 16nm) or by number of shaders (1080 vs 1050) can hold bigger/better video decoders.

It's all about size and space for video decoding inside the GPU chip.

Not really. As nevcairiel pointed out, smaller chips usually come, sometimes by a few months, after their bigger counterparts, so it's not surprising that they usually come with better video blocks too.

Manufacturing processes dictate very little when it comes to video engines.

I really doubt that GP107 is different (it's probably a driver feature difference), but I've been wrong about nvidia before, so who knows.

[NikosD]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Its not really about the 1050 being smaller and therefor having more space, its just 6 month newer. The next gen "big" cards will have the same new "bigger" decoder as well.

Originally Posted by eddman

Not really. As nevcairiel pointed out, smaller chips usually come, sometimes by a few months, after their bigger counterparts, so it's not surprising that they usually come with better video blocks too.

No. It's not that.

Guys, for me it's really obvious that you don't have a clear picture of the subject, lack of knowledge I think.

Since you insist, I have to remind you the first Fermi card of Nvidia that had VP5 decoder was the smallest one - the low entry budget GT520.

Just one month before the release of GT520 the Fermi cards had VP4 inside.

Also, one month AFTER the release of GT520, the 560 Ti card had VP4 decoder.

Release time to market has nothing to do with the new video decoders.

I hope you don't need more proofs.

Originally Posted by CruNcher

And because of the Higher Shadercount they calculate if it wouldn't be more feasible to use these Shaders for Decoding and stress the CPU therefore a bit more
Nevcariel these decisions are way over a year old what we see is the turn out of simple economic balance and Design decisions about the VPX target and practical goals for specific release schedule it's like partly planing into the future with predicted and existing knowledge of how it will turn out

Well said, once again.

[huhn]

first problem is these cards are 5 years old and the "new" 560 ti was just a GF110/GF114 these chips where produced already before the 560 ti so they had the same VP.

the GT520 was so slow that the only thing it could do was video decoding.

[NikosD]

I hope some time such completely irrelevant and wrong posts to stop, taking space from the thread and confusing people.

The only purpose besides trolling is to prove me wrong, which is a very very very difficult thing to do