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Old 21st February 2020, 11:33   #58721  |  Link
huhn
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as always he takes a topic like a scaling algorithm then works on that for 1-36 months without touching "anything" else.

currently he is working on HDR and HDR -> SDR conversation.
if you don't care about that topic so be it not everyone cared about error diffusion too that's normal but still a feature he want to add.
there are 113 major test builds i'm ignoring sub builds here this was a ton of work.
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Old 21st February 2020, 12:04   #58722  |  Link
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Not to mention that he has simultaneously been working on the envy product launch which is now in the hands of Beta testers. The envy shares the same code base as madvr. Given that he's working to finalize that product release he's very focused at the moment. But dynamic tone mapping is far from done as he continues to improve it.

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Old 21st February 2020, 12:23   #58723  |  Link
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For me, as I watch a lot of 720/1080p on a 4k display, 113 has improved the upscaling significantly. And I think my gtx1060 can hold for longer time.
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Old 21st February 2020, 12:58   #58724  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiwan View Post
I'm not really understand what madshi did with his "madVRhdrMeasure", is it only a HDR thing or a real new updated version of madVR with bugfixes, tweaks, speedups etc.? I didn't need all the HDR stuff.

Version 0.92.17 is now old, is madVRhdrMeasure113 the newer version of madVR? It's kinda sad that there was no development for madVR anymore or in my opinion it maybe goes the "wrong" direction. I don't wanna be offensive to madshi or someone, I just wanna understand it.
One way to look at it could be: where's the superior Windows option? If the latest madVR release prior to all the development gone into HDR tonemapping and Envy is still superior to all other available options, what's the problem?

I mean, considering that it's all free there should not be a problem ever with this product's development roadmap but, considering that I don't see anything superior being made available... I'm glad that I can still use it, for free.
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Old 21st February 2020, 13:27   #58725  |  Link
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I'm glad that I can still use it, for free.
madVR was always a great software and I would pay for it to use and support. Envy is now one year announced and still not available for public.

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as always he takes a topic like a scaling algorithm then works on that for 1-36 months without touching "anything" else.
I don't get why he does focus one thing for years. I'm only a PC user and Windows change so much stuff, player changes, driver changes, features broke, new features are possible... for a TV user its not a big deal to work with stable but old software because it does nothing change.

I'm will testing now madVRhdrMeasure if it makes a difference for my system. Thanks nsnhd.
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Old 21st February 2020, 13:39   #58726  |  Link
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because he may like it(if you take the time to pick a around a bit is obvious why). it's free software nothing for us to bother with.
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Old 21st February 2020, 14:33   #58727  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Tobiwan View Post
I don't get why he does focus one thing for years.
It's easy: business = money

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Originally Posted by nsnhd View Post
113 has improved the upscaling significantly.
Really? What do you reckon by how much?
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Old 21st February 2020, 14:41   #58728  |  Link
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the scaling isn't better it's cheaper.
the trick was (don't quote me on that) to do the scaling in one shader not in "alot" the transfer from one shader to another seem to cost quite some processing power.
the problem is the rendertimes are not correct anymore 23p may work with 42 ms don't think about it just take it.
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Old 21st February 2020, 14:48   #58729  |  Link
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I tested the 113 beta, and for me it increased the rendering times, with the last official build 0.92.17 the render times are lower.
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Old 21st February 2020, 14:55   #58730  |  Link
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He claims the render times are more accurate in 113 than they were in the past and that even though they've "increased" they were in reality always that high. At least that's what madshi said on the avs thread.
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Old 21st February 2020, 14:59   #58731  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
He claims the render times are more accurate in 113 than they were in the past and that even though they've "increased" they were in reality always that high. At least that's what madshi said on the avs thread.
Well, I hope it is true.
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:06   #58732  |  Link
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As always you need to check GPU clock and % usage to compare efficiency, not just rendering times in the OSD.

I assume a lot of madshi's time is taken up by the Envy and it's fine, he has a product to sell. HDR tone mapping is the rage right now like SD upscale was 10 years ago, and it needs to be as good as possible for the Envy to show a big advantage in the market. A lot of madVR's quality on the PC comes from doing 'foundation' steps in higher quality than the basic DXVA pipeline, but when compared to standalone pro video processors it needs to advertise killer features. NGU is one but other manufacturers have started to do machine learning upscale too (smooth motion is another but I'm not sure how many customers see it as a killer feature); its HDR tone mapping otoh seems to be a notch or two above everything else - especially with high-end projectors where a lot of the money is - and you need dev time to reach such a quality.
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:27   #58733  |  Link
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Before claiming anyone's ignorance, you might want to check the price of a somewhat-decent colorimeter - which is usually upwards of $250. Few people are willing to drop that much on some vague promise of better PQ.
Colorimeters need to drop 9/10th their price before anyone can even hope for them to become widely used, and I don't think that's going to happen any time soon. Wishful thinking and all.
That price is trivial .

After every calibration, consumer displays can only hold accurate for 300-500 hours of usage. The image quality of TVs begin rotting the moment you turn them on.

The Bottom line on ALL display products is, if you don't have it calibrated, you Don't get what you paid for. All the work the colorist did, the engineering behind the equipment, everything is wasted..

These facts are hidden from the public.

Calibration is like an oil change for your TV. Now that people have multiple devices , computers, tvs, monitors, laptops, A single $250 colorimeter (i1 display pro on sale for $135 during blackfriday, every year for 3-4 years in a row now), An owner can fully calibrate all of his devices. The typical family with 2 Tvs, 2 Laptops, 1 Desktop, that's $135/5, $27 to calibrate each devices + recalibrate at any time, and they'll stay in shape as long as the backlight holds.

How is that not worth it. This is clear cut, people don't buy colorimeters because they're ignorant of the benefits, not because they can't afford it.
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:29   #58734  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
One way to look at it could be: where's the superior Windows option? If the latest madVR release prior to all the development gone into HDR tonemapping and Envy is still superior to all other available options, what's the problem?

I mean, considering that it's all free there should not be a problem ever with this product's development roadmap but, considering that I don't see anything superior being made available... I'm glad that I can still use it, for free.
THERE are no other options. Madvr is the Only end to end solution for PC playback that supports 3DLut. This is the single most important feature of video playback.

He's cornered the market I tells ya...

Movie director says red
Costume design makes red
Actor wears red
Camera captures Red
Editor cuts RED
Colorist Adjusts RED

Without calibration , the TV Goes, I'm pretty sure you mean't Green, wait, how bout orange, Green or orange, I'mma flip between these two colors every once in a while. < this is what people are watching >
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:48   #58735  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
NGU is one but other manufacturers have started to do machine learning upscale too (smooth motion is another but I'm not sure how many customers see it as a killer feature);
I believe he also said at one point that when HDR dynamic tone mapping is done he had some thoughts on new scaling algorithms that might take advantage of the RTX cores. He did mention that he wasn't sure if that'd make it into madvr (at least the free version, possibly reserved for pro) or not. None of this should be taken as fact as it's usually madshi just laying out what he hopes will happen from time to time. But that could be fun to see.
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:50   #58736  |  Link
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I believe he also said at one point that when HDR dynamic tone mapping is done he had some thoughts on new scaling algorithms that might take advantage of the RTX cores. He did mention that he wasn't sure if that'd make it into madvr (at least the free version, possibly reserved for pro) or not. None of this should be taken as fact as it's usually madshi just laying out what he hopes will happen from time to time. But that could be fun to see.
Definitely see an advantage to buying a seperate device that's uniform and easy to support for madshi.

It's the total package of madvr that makes it great, not any single feature.

That said, 3DLut color correction is the cornerstone of Madvr's absolute dominance.
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:52   #58737  |  Link
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You know, I see you beating on the calibration drum an awful lot. Which is fine and all. But you'd think if you were so passionate about it, you'd invest in a real colorimeter like a Klein instead of the i1d3 toy most of us are using. After all, if accuracy is the end all and be all of video watching, then having a real meter to measure and calibrate your display with should be paramount. Not to mention you bring up panel drift while measuring....well, if you want to avoid that, you need a FAST, accurate meter. Otherwise, while you're improving things with the i1d3, it's not nearly as accurate as it should be.
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:52   #58738  |  Link
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there is at least one player i know that can use 3D LUT too...
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:53   #58739  |  Link
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madVR was always a great software and I would pay for it to use and support. Envy is now one year announced and still not available for public.



I don't get why he does focus one thing for years. I'm only a PC user and Windows change so much stuff, player changes, driver changes, features broke, new features are possible... for a TV user its not a big deal to work with stable but old software because it does nothing change.

I'm will testing now madVRhdrMeasure if it makes a difference for my system. Thanks nsnhd.

The Envy is available to the public. Some public have one already right now.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...l#post59273432
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Old 21st February 2020, 15:56   #58740  |  Link
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it's not they are test models and still under NDA.
wrong thread BTW.
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