Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th May 2019, 03:47   #56121  |  Link
HelmedHorror
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 32
How will Ultra HD Blu-ray content be handled by a monitor like the LG 34GK950F, which supports up DisplayHDR 400 and uses 8-bit+FRC (as I understand it , it's 8-bit plus dithering to simulate 10-bit)?

My gut tells me that it will be handled similarly to how SDR monitors handle it. That is, poorly.

Unsurprisingly, I found it impossible to Google this question because I think very few people watch Blu-ray content (i.e., literally Blu-ray discs or rips thereof, not merely Netflix) on a computer monitor. Buuuut I knew just the place to ask!
HelmedHorror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 04:17   #56122  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,890
pretty much the same as a TV with 400 nits.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 04:48   #56123  |  Link
HelmedHorror
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
pretty much the same as a TV with 400 nits.
I don't have a TV and haven't watched a movie on one in over a decade, so I'm not sure what that means
HelmedHorror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 05:37   #56124  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 706
@ HelmedHorror

Well, the main issue to work around is that it's ips with a contrast ratio of 1000:1

So , @ the peak 400cd, the black lvl is 0.4cd.

Before worrying about peak brightness, what you need to understand is that the image loses alot of depth without at least a VA-panel. VA has ~2000-3000:1 contrast on pc monitors. On va-Televisions, it goes from 4000:1 to 6000:1

The 10bit SHOULD give you smoother gradient than on 8bit.

But in most cases, Madvr does just as well with 8bit, because it has its own dithering capability.


You may even consider using 144hz w/ LG's Motion blur reduction turned ON.

The MBR cuts the brightness to 234.53cd, but that might actually be better depending on your room stimulus light.

Overall, in a bright room, it should look pretty decent. the high black lvl will however eat most of the dark details.

If you're using this monitor Long term for HDR movies, I recommend getting a colorimeter, so you can adjust blackoutput offset to tease out a just little more black detail, while still maintaining the more contrasty look.

Boo @ 75%
https://imgur.com/XAdPuib

Boo @ 100% (more contrast, but too black for IPS)
https://imgur.com/fjmHt4t
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz

Last edited by tp4tissue; 4th May 2019 at 07:23.
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 09:45   #56125  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,890
you don't lose dark details with a low CR displays. they just get less dark...

the screen simply has a similar if not better HDR as an entry level LG IPS UHD TV the total majority they sell but this is a gaming screen on top of it.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 15:17   #56126  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
@HelmedHorror the last paragraph from the TFTCentral article you linked tells all you need to know about that monitor's HDR mode: basically, it's even worse than in SDR mode.
Setting madVR to tone map using 400 as peak nits and outputting SDR with the display backlight at maximum would give you the best quality IMO.
The monitor still has a larger colour gamut than most SDR screens so you'll still benefit from that.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 15:19   #56127  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 706
If by similar HDR you mean lacking contrast. then Yes. hahaha.

IPS blk lvl is too high.

If the image has any dark noise, it can grey cast and fade the entire image.

Had they graded the film FOR IPS, things would be different.

Having high blk lvl is the same as having Missing gamut. Director intent is lost to some degree.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz

Last edited by tp4tissue; 4th May 2019 at 16:42.
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 15:21   #56128  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Setting madVR to tone map using 400 as peak nits and outputting SDR with the display backlight at maximum would give you the best quality IMO.
He should try out the 10bit too. Might look nice.

I really don't think 400cd is a good idea here, but yea, try it, keep the room very bright to offset blacks. For 0.4cd to look black or even 0.2 cd, the room basically needs to be as bright as morning sunlight.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz

Last edited by tp4tissue; 4th May 2019 at 15:25.
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 16:53   #56129  |  Link
chrisssj2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Try pixel shaders with HDR output checked. You may or may not prefer it to passthrough. To send the correct metadata to the display, however, the latest Nvidia driver is needed. So playback may stutter with an RTX 2080 due to conflicts with that driver. In that case, go back to 418.91 and stick with passthrough.

Set the target peak nits to 700-1,000 nits;
Tone mapping curve to BT.2390;
Leave color tweaks for fire & explosions at balanced;
Set highlight recovery strength to medium-high.


high is a better choice, as very high is a waste of resources for chroma upscaling.



Neither is required with 4K output.



Leave them all unchecked.



See here:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...438#pid2739438
Just tried your settings. The movie played back fine.
First I was afraid of micro stutters. But I don't think I have any.
Perhaps only when starting the movie/pausing/resuming it.

http://prntscr.com/nkcq5v

Image of the stats on kodi.
Using 12 RGB BIT here.. Don't rly see difference at first glance to ybcr

Tried putting the TV on low blacks during mission impossible 2015 movie. And it looked better in my own personal opinion.
With blacks on high it looked too bright and grey IMO. The blacks low make the blacks rly nice.

Also RTings guide suggest to use Low black levels for my tv.

EDIT:
Just put up the mission impossible 2018 movie.
And im getting stutters all over the place. Whereas 2015 mission impossible was fine today!

http://prntscr.com/nkdc6g

Lots of occasional glitches and frame drops. Any idea?
Most of it is watchable but every minute or so something happens. sometimes a second only and sometimes several seconds.

Last edited by chrisssj2; 4th May 2019 at 17:45.
chrisssj2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 18:44   #56130  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,477
Long shot or not but if I want to zoom a 1080p60 video by 30%, why does mVR still does all its processing even on portions of the video that aren't shown? Wouldn't it be possible to only post-process(SSIM/NGU/etc) what's visible after zoom is applied? It's a waste of ressources and I might get away with higher quality picture if that was doable.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 19:21   #56131  |  Link
hotripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post

EDIT:
Just put up the mission impossible 2018 movie.
And im getting stutters all over the place. Whereas 2015 mission impossible was fine today!

http://prntscr.com/nkdc6g

Lots of occasional glitches and frame drops. Any idea?
Most of it is watchable but every minute or so something happens. sometimes a second only and sometimes several seconds.
Yeah thats high and high renders and cues arent filling. What driver are you on? Latest or 418.91? You aren,t display matching...? Check Task Manager see if you have anything hogging resources. Maybe you have the high cpu bug for nvidia.
__________________
3700X - RTX2070 - 970EVO - EVGA Supernova 750W Gold - Sony KD55X720E
hotripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:17   #56132  |  Link
chrisssj2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotripper View Post
Yeah thats high and high renders and cues arent filling. What driver are you on? Latest or 418.91? You aren,t display matching...? Check Task Manager see if you have anything hogging resources. Maybe you have the high cpu bug for nvidia.
No idea what that means what you just said but im on latest nvidia drivers. Nothing running on the computer. And I can't exactly pullup task manager while playing exlusive fulscreen movie.

Anyway I undid the suggested changed in the "Trade quality for performance" tab and set them to default. also changed back from RGB to YBCR.
I don't actually know what caused it.
But after changing those things the movie playbackked flawlessly.
chrisssj2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:27   #56133  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Wouldn't it be possible to only post-process(SSIM/NGU/etc) what's visible after zoom is applied?
No, the player is doing the zoom and it does it by telling madVR to render to a larger size, madVR does not know exactly what part of the image is off the screen. That is also a pretty rare use case for a dedicated feature but a simple manual crop could do it (with more work) and be useful in other ways too.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 4th May 2019 at 20:30.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:33   #56134  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No, the player is doing the zoom and it does it by telling madVR to render to a larger size, madVR does not know exactly what part of the image is off the screen. That is also a pretty rare use case for a dedicated feature but a simple manual crop could do it (with more work) and be useful in other ways too.
mVR is told by the player what portion to zoom in, I don't see why invisible portions are being processed at all....especially with 4K content for instance.

Manual crop? With Avisynth in ffdshow in 8bit? No thanks
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:54   #56135  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,403
I meant a new feature for madVR, a manual crop, not resurrecting ffdshow.
I used to think that madVR would never have those kind of features but we got denoising, deblocking, sharpening, etc. A crop does not seem inappropriate.

Is madVR told by the player what portion to zoom into or is it simply told to render to a specific rectangle? I am pretty sure madVR simply gets told a target rectangle. It could assume (0,0) is the top left most visible pixel, and the display is a specific resolution, but I am not sure that would be true in all situations.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 4th May 2019 at 21:24.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:58   #56136  |  Link
Siso
Soul Seeker
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I meant a new feature for madVR, a manual crop, not resurrecting ffdshow.
I used to think that madVR would never have those kind of features but we got denoising, deblocking, sharpening, etc. A crop does not seem inappropriate.

Is madVR told by the player what portion to zoom into or is it simply told to render to a specific rectangle? I am pretty sure madVR simply gets told a target rectangle, it could assume (0,0) is the top left most visible pixel pixel and a specific aspect ratio but I am not sure that would be true in all situations.
Manual crop or crop via AR, would be a very cool feature in madvr, just my two cents
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 22:04   #56137  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Is madVR told by the player what portion to zoom into or is it simply told to render to a specific rectangle? I am pretty sure madVR simply gets told a target rectangle. It could assume (0,0) is the top left most visible pixel, and the display is a specific resolution, but I am not sure that would be true in all situations.
mVR gets told what portion to zoom in, let it do the math and only process what's visible then:

Code is kinda already there with black bars cropping and all so mostly a small change and we'd be good to go heh, sometimes I'd love to zoom in 1080p60 videos but it ends up in stutterland coz the 30/40% of picture that are invisible are being processed anyway.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 23:15   #56138  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post
No idea what that means what you just said but im on latest nvidia drivers. Nothing running on the computer. And I can't exactly pullup task manager while playing exlusive fulscreen movie.

Anyway I undid the suggested changed in the "Trade quality for performance" tab and set them to default. also changed back from RGB to YBCR.
I don't actually know what caused it.
But after changing those things the movie playbackked flawlessly.
Here is what I see from your OSD/s

Playing a 23.976 @30
You say you are 12 Bit, which you are with nVidia. but madVR is outputting in 8 Bit
you are at Limited should you be in Full ?
Looking at the 2nd screen the GPU cannot cope at all and the frame rates are still off ?

Unsure why you cannot see this, will it make a difference to the choppiness unsure. Ultimately madVR and nVidia are not in tune for the later cards, but the settings you are using will not help.

Read this this thread to understand what the OSD means etc...
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188- 5. MEASURING PERFORMANCE & TROUBLESHOOTING
__________________
Windows 10-1909 | i5-3570k | GTX 1070 Windforce OC Rev2 8GB : 430.64 | Pioneer VSX-534 | Philips 65PUS6703 - 65"

Last edited by madjock; 5th May 2019 at 09:53.
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 13:29   #56139  |  Link
chrisssj2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Here is what I see from your OSD/s

Playing a 23.976 @30
You say you are 12 Bit, which you are with nVidia. but madVR is outputting in 8 Bit
you are at Limited should you be in Full ?
Looking at the 2nd screen the GPU cannot cope at all and the frame rates are still off ?

Unsure why you cannot see this, will it make a difference to the choppiness unsure. Ultimately madVR and nVidia are not in tune for the later cards, but the settings you are using will not help.

Read this this thread to understand what the OSD means etc...
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188- 5. MEASURING PERFORMANCE & TROUBLESHOOTING
That maybe due to the fact I need to make it windowed to make a screenshot..? Unsure will check.
Yes like I said suddenly with that movie it was completely unwatchable. But with the other movie it was perfect. Sounds strange no?

So I should use nvidia's 24 hz setting? When playing RGB? or even if I choose to YCBR, always 24 hz rather then 60 hz?
chrisssj2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 14:22   #56140  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 1,666
23 Hz for 23.976p
24 Hz for 24.000p
50 Hz for 25.000p, 50.000p and also interlaced 25.000i/50.000i (same thing)
59 Hz for 29.970p, 59.940p and also interlaced 29.970i/59.940i (again same thing)
60 Hz for 30.000p, 60.000p and also interlaced 30.000i/60.000i (and again same thing)

Please note:
23.976 is 24.000/1.001
29.970 is 30.000/1.001
59.940 is 60.000/1.001
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.