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Old 7th June 2011, 14:49   #8061  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
This time it switches but the display mode is 1080p59, not 1080i59 (the setup is still: 1080p23, 1080i50, 1080i59) -> log (1080i50 works)
Windows reports "bad mode" when madVR tries to switch to 1080i59. Does that mode really exist?
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Old 7th June 2011, 14:51   #8062  |  Link
janos666
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Oh, SORRY! I accidentally left the MPC-HC autochanger on. Here is a new log without it and without display mode change: log2
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Old 7th June 2011, 14:55   #8063  |  Link
e-t172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Ideally(and I made this feature request to madshi a while back), we'd need some automatic rules like:
-23.976: SMPTE-C(that you could always change to EBU using a hotkey if it was mastered in Europe)
-25: EBU(it could also be HDTV, so you could always swap it if need be)
-29.97: SMPTE-C(it's most likely SD VIDEO NTSC, but it could also be HDTV if it's HD)

You'll find some food for thoughts in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1038602
I've just read this thread from beginning to end, and have not reached your conclusions. It seems the general consensus is that HD material is in fact mastered for 709 gamut. According to most professionals in this thread, they're using SMPTE-C monitors when mastering, but at the end of the chain (after the SMPTE-C monitor) there is always a gamut conversion to 709 using a 3dlut. Most of the thread is about whether it is possible to properly grade video material using a monitor with insufficient gamut ; but this discussion has nothing to do with the fact that, in the end, the result is always meant to be displayed using 709 gamut.

Because of this, I think it is best to follow the standard and use 709 gamut for HD content.
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Old 7th June 2011, 14:56   #8064  |  Link
janos666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Windows reports "bad mode" when madVR tries to switch to 1080i59. Does that mode really exist?
I am not sure, I initially thought I need 1080i30 or 1080i29 (one of them) but I found it (1080i59) in your example list.
And I don't know what happened with v0.62 but madvr reported 59.xxHz with 1080i30 materials and I couldn't see the signs of the interlace on the display.
1080i50 works for sure, I will play with the numbers.
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:01   #8065  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
Oh, SORRY! I accidentally left the MPC-HC autochanger on. Here is a new log without it and without display mode change: log2
Same, "bad mode".
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:02   #8066  |  Link
janos666
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This time I tried to list these modes:
1080i29, 1080i30, 1080i59, 1080i60
Nothing happens, the display mode remains 1080p60 and it is obviously not deinterlaced by the TV.
The TV deinterlaced the same material correctly before the sync problem occurred with v0.62 -> What was my exact display mode then with DX9?
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:04   #8067  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
I've just read this thread from beginning to end, and have not reached your conclusions. It seems the general consensus is that HD material is in fact mastered for 709 gamut. According to most professionals in this thread, they're using SMPTE-C monitors when mastering, but at the end of the chain (after the SMPTE-C monitor) there is always a gamut conversion to 709 using a 3dlut. Most of the thread is about whether it is possible to properly grade video material using a monitor with insufficient gamut ; but this discussion has nothing to do with the fact that, in the end, the result is always meant to be displayed using 709 gamut.
Thats what i would've thought.
Why would a professional mastering studio master for a gamut which is only used on their screens, totally ignoring the Blu-ray spec which says you're supposed to use Rec. 709?

Sure, they are using SMPTE-C screens, that doesn't mean they master for them.
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:08   #8068  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
This time I tried to list these modes:
1080i29, 1080i30, 1080i59, 1080i60
Nothing happens, the display mode remains 1080p60 and it is obviously not deinterlaced by the TV.
The TV deinterlaced the same material correctly before the sync problem occurred with v0.62 -> What was my exact display mode then with DX9?
I don't know what was before. But it's pretty obvious that madVR can not switch your GPU to 1080i59, because then Windows reports "bad mode". So better remove 1080i59 from your mode list. I'd suggest putting only one mode in there at a time to check if it works. Probably your GPU wants 1080i29 and not 1080i59, although it's really the same. There's a bug in madVR, though, so maybe you should delay testing until the next version is out.
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:12   #8069  |  Link
janos666
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Oh god, it was a "syntax error" again.
It works if I list the 1080i29 alone. madVR reports 59.940Hz and the TV does the deinterlacing.
I wonder why 1080i50 triggers the interlaced 50Hz and 1080i29 the interlaced 59.94Hz

It's not only testing. I would actually watch some episodes from a TV Show tonight.
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:25   #8070  |  Link
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And the sync problem is still there. (Here is the last log if logging was turned on anyway: log3
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:50   #8071  |  Link
cyberlolo
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@madshi, yesgrey has answered that yCMS is not yet using the luminance values, so the values on the first column are not important.

ok, but what about those values in madvr? are they ignored as well?
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Old 7th June 2011, 15:55   #8072  |  Link
madshi
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madVR just passes the values on to yCMS. Other than that madVR doesn't care. So you should be fine using "dummy" values.
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Old 7th June 2011, 16:06   #8073  |  Link
oddball
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I only wish for two things from MadVR right now. A fix for the seekbar issue and the ability to screencap.
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Old 7th June 2011, 16:07   #8074  |  Link
cyberlolo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR just passes the values on to yCMS. Other than that madVR doesn't care. So you should be fine using "dummy" values.
Ok, thanks.

By the way, when trying to use an external 3dlut file, madvr says: "this 3dlut file does not match the input format required by madVR"

This is the file used for generating the 3dlut with yCMS:

# Set input format
Input_Format HD YCbCr 8

# Set output format
Output_Format HD RGB_Video 16

Gamut_Measurements 1
21.26 0.6350 0.3321
71.52 0.2890 0.6007
7.22 0.1528 0.0647
100.00 0.3127 0.3294

Last edited by cyberlolo; 7th June 2011 at 16:13.
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Old 7th June 2011, 16:13   #8075  |  Link
pie1394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
Oh god, it was a "syntax error" again.
It works if I list the 1080i29 alone. madVR reports 59.940Hz and the TV does the deinterlacing.
I wonder why 1080i50 triggers the interlaced 50Hz and 1080i29 the interlaced 59.94Hz

It's not only testing. I would actually watch some episodes from a TV Show tonight.
Just tried 1080i50 and I get the same result like you. It only gets correct switching with 1080p50 mode for 1080i50 material.

If you have used LAVCUVID to perform Deinterlace + Frame-rate doubler, it is better to choose progressive video mode instead of the interlaced one.

I ever tried LAVCUVID w/o deinterlace option + madVR + interlaced video mode. But it shows some "judder" like motion object's visual problems. Don't know if it is due to the madVR's presentation logic on Frame image to video driver's interlaced mode because one field is not observed on quickly motioned scenes.
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Old 7th June 2011, 16:53   #8076  |  Link
pacemaker1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Personally I highly recommend the following:

LAV Splitter
LAV Audio
Your favorite video decoder based upon your hardware (LAV CUVID for nVidia to do GPU decoding and for me Cyberlink Video Decoder for HAM mode for GPU decoding to offload decoding to your video card)
ffdshow raw video filter for subs *UNLESS* you're using MPC-HC in which case use their internal sub renderer

With that combination you can just load the index.bdmv file in your BD folder and it will play the main movie. Or you can open an MPLS file. Or you can open your m2ts file. However you wanna do it.
apologies for not understanding but could you explain more or point me to a link?
i have an ati 4650 card and use TMT at the moment for bluray
looks like i need to have hardware acceleration but how?
i prefer not to use ffdshow and only use mpc with madvr plus ac3filter set to spdif passthrough for aac audio files

i need to go back to basics as i thought all bluray playing was done using the gpu and powerdvd/tmt etc

i really like the madvr auto refresh feature and want to get my bd rips playing like my avi/mkv files with minimum fuss. that is just madvr renderer and HW acceleration if this is possible

thanks

ps what is HAM mode?

Last edited by pacemaker1000; 7th June 2011 at 16:56.
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Old 7th June 2011, 16:58   #8077  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
the result is always meant to be displayed using 709 gamut.

Because of this, I think it is best to follow the standard and use 709 gamut for HD content.
well, that's the theory...and yes, some mastering houses are said to use some 3DLUT's at the very last stage to convert the gamut from SMPTE-C to HDTV...but some/most don't(depending on who you ask ). I personally trust Joe Kane and the ISF more than some random opinions on a random forum.

But yes, your average movie goes through a lot of proprietary 3D LUT's before making it to BD: http://www.color.org/ICC_Chiba_07-06..._DMP_Float.pdf

A real world experiment is to calibrate your display w/ a good sensor(ΔE <1), then roll the gamuts and see for yourself...I personally have never seen a US or EUR BD that looked better w/ an HDTV gamut. And the whole idea of those automatic rules would be that you could set them all to HDTV if you like it better. It's more a matter of personal perception than anything else.

JVC pj's are known to have wide gamuts and makes movies look terribly oversaturated(it might have changed w/ their latest models)...SMPTE-C orangey red becomes ferrari red, ppl look over-tanned...but JVC did this after many real world experiments coz most ppl expect HD to look oversaturated: they find SMPTE-C dull and washed out(and it is).

The same way most ppl hate 24p and whine for 48p/60p when they actually watch their movies in 60Hz. I'll take the "Battle: Los Angeles" movie as an example, that would make anyone dizzy if watched in 60Hz as pretty much the whole movie was shot using an hand-held camera. D65/2.4 in a 24Hz multiple ensures that you're watching the movie as it's meant to be seen. Now, roll the gamut from SMPTE-C to HDTV a few times and decide which one you prefer, as there's no practical hard rule....and tbh, only the most OCD'ed videophiles really give a damn whether the hero of CARS is orangey red or deep red

Last edited by leeperry; 7th June 2011 at 19:26.
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Old 7th June 2011, 17:03   #8078  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacemaker1000 View Post
apologies for not understanding but could you explain more or point me to a link?
i have an ati 4650 card
looks like i need to have hardware acceleration but how?
i prefer not to use ffdshow and only use mpc with madvr plus ac3filter set to spdif passthrough for aac audio files

i need to go back to basics as i thought all bluray playing was done using the gpu and powerdvd/tmt etc

i really like the madvr auto refresh feature and want to get my bd rips playing like my avi/mkv files with minimum fuss

thanks

ps what is HAM mode?
There's 2 types of "hardware acceleration". DXVA is the traditional way where all video decoding is done on the GPU and the decoded frames stay there. All post processing has to be done in the GPU. Another way to take advantage of the GPU is to use their API to offload the decoding of the video to the GPU, but, then copy it back into system memory. This allows for post processing to be done on the CPU. This is what madVR requires. HAM mode is Cyberlink's implementation of the AMD APP API that allows them to offload the video decoding to the GPU and get the frames back to system memory. It basically acts like a software decoder, but, uses the GPU to do the heavy lifting so your CPU can concentrate on other tasks. For blu-ray, your audio setup isn't really all that adequate. Personally I'd use LAV Audio with TMT's dtsdecoderdll.dll and let it decode all audio for you. This will give you bit perfect PCM. Output that to your receiver over HDMI and you basically have one powerful little setup. So skip ffdshow, that's fine, but, LAV filters (splitter/audio) really would be beneficial IMO. Just disable all the MPC internal filters and add LAV Audio to the external filters list and set to prefer. LAV Splitter should just work. If not you can add that and set to prefer, as well. In MPC, set the auto load subtitles option and you should be good to go. madVR will take care of autorefresh rate changing if you configure that correctly. It's really a wonderful setup IMO.
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Old 7th June 2011, 18:03   #8079  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.64 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* changed a couple of calibration related texts
* Ctrl+Alt+Shift+C toggles gamma curve type now instead of Ctrl+Alt+Shift+T
* Ctrl+Alt+Shift+M toggles decoding matrix
* Ctrl+Alt+Shift+P toggles source primaries
* fixed: disabling gamma processing didn't show immediate effect
* fixed: one more display mode changer bug
* added support for switching to 59i/60i display mode for 59p/60p content
* Windows key now only stops exclusive mode when running on primary monitor
* seekbar is now shown only if mouse cursor is on playback monitor
* when the PC is locked (Windows Key + L) madVR now pauses playback
* fixed: D3D11 playback on secondary monitor could result in window size bug
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Old 7th June 2011, 18:15   #8080  |  Link
pacemaker1000
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
There's 2 types of "hardware acceleration". DXVA is the traditional way where all video decoding is done on the GPU and the decoded frames stay there. All post processing has to be done in the GPU. Another way to take advantage of the GPU is to use their API to offload the decoding of the video to the GPU, but, then copy it back into system memory. This allows for post processing to be done on the CPU. This is what madVR requires. HAM mode is Cyberlink's implementation of the AMD APP API that allows them to offload the video decoding to the GPU and get the frames back to system memory. It basically acts like a software decoder, but, uses the GPU to do the heavy lifting so your CPU can concentrate on other tasks. For blu-ray, your audio setup isn't really all that adequate. Personally I'd use LAV Audio with TMT's dtsdecoderdll.dll and let it decode all audio for you. This will give you bit perfect PCM. Output that to your receiver over HDMI and you basically have one powerful little setup. So skip ffdshow, that's fine, but, LAV filters (splitter/audio) really would be beneficial IMO. Just disable all the MPC internal filters and add LAV Audio to the external filters list and set to prefer. LAV Splitter should just work. If not you can add that and set to prefer, as well. In MPC, set the auto load subtitles option and you should be good to go. madVR will take care of autorefresh rate changing if you configure that correctly. It's really a wonderful setup IMO.
thanks for taking the time to write this explanation
i have downloaded lavfilters0.28 and will try tonight to get it working
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