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Old 30th May 2018, 13:25   #51041  |  Link
Polopretress
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But Smooth Motion is completly useless when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:31   #51042  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Polopretress View Post
when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)
But if it is imperfect, but so small imperfect that we can have hours of exact video and only few seconds of changed?
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:52   #51043  |  Link
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But if it is imperfect, but so small imperfect that we can have hours of exact video and only few seconds of changed?
If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:05   #51044  |  Link
Manni
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If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours.
Yes, but for many (i.e. us nVidia users) custom refresh modes give only about 50-60mn of drop-frame-free playback in 2D, and 3-5mn in 3D .

That's something that has to be improved, especially 3D (although I'm aware that 1) this is primarily nVidia's fault and 2) that's not going to be easy/possible in 3D).
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:11   #51045  |  Link
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Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:28   #51046  |  Link
Polopretress
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

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For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours
.
Agree.
my acceptance criteria for the safe side is above 10 hours before the first drop/repeat occures and i do not care about smoothing problem. In this condition, enabling Smooth Motion function does not give any added value.
The last (small) flickerings that are still existing (especialy on vertical travelings) cannot be removed by SM but only by the smooth feature of the TVs or Projectors if there are equiped with.

Quote:
Yes, but for many (i.e. us nVidia users) custom refresh modes give only about 50-60mn of drop-frame-free playback in 2D, and 3-5mn in 3D .

That's something that has to be improved, especially 3D (although I'm aware that 1) this is primarily nVidia's fault and 2) that's not going to be easy/possible in 3D).
Driver Nvidia are sometime crazy and in most of case, it is more easy to modifiy directly the settings in madVR custom modes where you can have the flexibility to adjust pixel clock. (like ATI GPU driver but not provided with Nvidia drivers)

If the scan with custom modes function does not give you the expected good timing (or blank screen) , then, a simple calculation based on the displayed data "1 frame drop/repeat every :..." helps to manually calculate the good settings for back porch H/V and pixel clock

This is what i do since custom mode scanning does not always give me a good result.
With ATI graphic display board, no issue with the driver.

Last edited by Polopretress; 30th May 2018 at 14:39.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:28   #51047  |  Link
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If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?
Hours is little exaggeration, of course. I have 40min repeat on my home system on HD4000.
But phrase "we have [tens of] minutes exact video and only few seconds changed" sounds as good as with hours

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you just need "good enough"
Some people are very sensitive to repeats/drops. This thread is good example. That's why this discussion take place.
P.S. "as high as possible" is the madVR slogan, isn't it?
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:32   #51048  |  Link
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Some people are very sensitive to repeats/drops. This thread is good example. That's why this discussion take place.
P.S. "as high as possible" is the madVR slogan, isn't it?
Well if you have a 3-4 hour drop interval, you're not going to see any drops unless you actually watch a movie that long. So in this case while higher is of course "better", it doesn't really benefit you either.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:35   #51049  |  Link
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Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.
I do it on Intel by EDID override since 2013. But what this facts prove or disprove? We can do better even in such situations - why not?
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:36   #51050  |  Link
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@madshi

Is there a way in MadVR to force resolution to switch from 4k/24 to 1080p/60 when 3D mkv is played? Right now madVR upscales all videos to 4k/24, which is what my desktop is set at and because of that 3D does not work.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:46   #51051  |  Link
Polopretress
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Hey guy, we were not talking about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen but the impact of this settings on the smoothness of the video (and the need or not to use Smooth Motion function)
Of course 40min of drop/repeat is not really an issue to lose or repeat a frame but the impact on the fluidity of the video is more visible when timing is not "perfectly" or "near perfectly" set

Last edited by Polopretress; 30th May 2018 at 14:49.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:55   #51052  |  Link
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Hey guy, we were not talking about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen
No. We were talking exactly about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen and how avoid this.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:01   #51053  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.
If your display allows it, sure.

Unfortunately that's not the case for many of us, especially with projectors.

I do agree though that if I could get 3+ hours in both 2D and 3D then I wouldn't be looking for anything more.

50-60mn in 2D is close enough, if the shot is mostly static when the 2-3 frame drops happen I won't notice them.

3-5mn in 3D sucks and makes it close to useless to those of us sensitive to frame drops though, and there doesn't seem to be a way to improve this, sadly.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:20   #51054  |  Link
Polopretress
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No. We were talking exactly about the fact of a drop/repeat frame that can be seen and how avoid this.
Not really but it does not matter.

see attached the beginning of the discussion :
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No. It is not improvement of SM nor new algorithm. This is struggling with almost the same but not equal frequencies. Read the beginning of this discussion.
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But Smooth Motion is completly useless when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:22   #51055  |  Link
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Yea, the drops in 3D on nVidia is very noticeable. If there's a way to improve that, I'd be all over it. Lately I can't even get a 2D custom res to work all that well for my panasonic plasma. sigh.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:49   #51056  |  Link
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Yea, the drops in 3D on nVidia is very noticeable. If there's a way to improve that, I'd be all over it. Lately I can't even get a 2D custom res to work all that well for my panasonic plasma. sigh.
I was not aware that 3D behavior was different from 2D on the custom resolution. (i do not read 3D in fact)
Does someone here knows the root cause ?

If you have also problem with 2D , it is probably because even if you modify and create a custom resolution for your Pana, it does not take into account and keep using his EDID settings to display.

In this case, 2 solutions :
1. modifiy the EDID instead of creating custom resolutions
2. create a multiple of your frequency but apply the settings of the real frequency.(and , of course, modify this setting in madVR by replacing for example 1080p23 by 1080p47) in that case, you "turn-around" the system lock.

On my Pana plasma , i apply the second solution because i prefer to avoid to modify the EDID file.

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If your display allows it, sure.
Unfortunately that's not the case for many of us, especially with projectors.
Exact. i see you have a JVC and it is a mess with this brand....
I have already spent hours and hours with one JVC of my friend to try to make it accept a new setting without blanck screen....

Sony and Epson are really more flexible !

Last edited by Polopretress; 30th May 2018 at 16:01.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:19   #51057  |  Link
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Exact. i see you have a JVC and it is a mess with this brand....
I have already spent hours and hours with one JVC of my friend to try to make it accept a new setting without blanck screen....
There is only one custom refresh rate setting that works with the JVCs (at least mine) with my 1080Ti and it's the EDID/CTA. That's the one that gives me 50-60mn between drops in 4K24 (2D). There is no need to "train" MadVR for 30mn, just select it and apply it. I haven't tested any other res/refresh rate as I don't really care.
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Last edited by Manni; 30th May 2018 at 16:23.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:37   #51058  |  Link
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3-5mn in 3D sucks and makes it close to useless to those of us sensitive to frame drops though, and there doesn't seem to be a way to improve this, sadly.
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
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Old 30th May 2018, 17:12   #51059  |  Link
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Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Wow, that's great news, thanks!

I hope they'll solve the levels issue at the same time, that's the main problem with the latest drivers.

And good luck with your commercial work
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Old 30th May 2018, 18:50   #51060  |  Link
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Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Great news, thank you and best of luck with your work.
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