LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[jmone]

...while this issue will not impact me on a 5.1 system..... is there any 7.1 DD+ material anyway?

[Andy o]

Just that test, I guess, but like renethx said... for the sake of completeness . It's really not practically important, at least for now (who knows if when broadcasters start using DD+ some of them won't use 7.1), but it's just been annoying me that apparently I'm the only one having this problem.

[jmone]

Well I can confirm it is not just you!

[whurlston]

Originally Posted by nightfly

And my Denon 988. Just got a new AVR though a Yamaha V867 and will see how that pans out.

DD+ bitstreaming works fine with my 5670 -> RX-V863 (no reclock). I haven't tested with my RX-A3000 though.

[jmone]

Nevcairiel, i read with interest on P143 your testing of containers / codecs especially the issues with MKV's produced using mkvmerge and DTS. Are there any issues with DD+ and LPCM in MKV (I see you tested on TS but not MKV)?

The reason I ask is I've still got to convert my old HD-DVD's to a more friendly format (most have DD+ but some have DTS-HD), and to date non of the GUI options grab me as ideal:
1) TS or BD Stucture (eg Clown_BD): Get to keep any subs in PGS but all DD+ will be converted to DTS or LPCM
2) MKV (eg AnotherEAC3toGUI): Uses mkvmerge and the GUI seem to want to convert both the DD+ track to something else and the PGS subs get converted to VOBSUB

This is a task I want to do once so thanks for the testing as I had no idea of the issues with mkvmerge!

[Andy o]

Originally Posted by jmone

Well I can confirm it is not just you!

Thanks. I set up my PC for 5.1 and it's a bit different than 7.1. With 5.1 my right channel doesn't go to center, it goes to left surround!

[Andy o]

I'm getting static with DTS-HD MA 2.0 and the Arcsoft dll. The LAV decoder status says "dts" only. 5.1 and 7.1 work fine with LAV. The Arcsoft decoder does decode 2.0 OK.

This is an audio mka sample, it's the same with mkv videos.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CSCFJ85R

[jmone]

Originally Posted by Andy o

I'm getting static with DTS-HD MA 2.0 and the Arcsoft dll. The LAV decoder status says "dts" only. 5.1 and 7.1 work fine with LAV. The Arcsoft decoder does decode 2.0 OK.

This is an audio mka sample, it's the same with mkv videos.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CSCFJ85R

I can also confirm, that under LAVAudio
1) Plays fine using avcodec
2) Plays static using dtsdecoderdll

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Mark_A_W

If it's not using a directshow connection, does this mean I can use the version which will handle DTS-MA 6.1 with eac3to, and the 24 bit version with LAV Audio?

The limitations were in the DirectShow component, and you're free to use whatever version of the decoder you want.

What issues with 6.1, btw? The latest version, 1.1.0.8, decodes 6.1 just fine, except that it double the back center to both back left and right (making it 7.1) - but me personally, since i dont have a back-center anyway, thats welcome.

Originally Posted by renethx

Can do the same thing for DdpDec71.dll for DD+? Just for the sake of completeness. DD+ 7.1 test file.

Thats too much work for too little benefit. There is barely any 7.1 material, and its kinda alot of work to figure out how a dll works if you know nothing about it.

[Andy o]

Sorry, that sample is only DTS 2.0, there's another title with the same video but DTS-HD MA 2.0 audio so I mixed them up. The following sample (different one) is DTS-HD MA 2.0 with the surround flag on. This static problem also happens with this sample.

Also, bitstreaming this sample, people with Pioneer receivers can check if their receivers need a firmware update. Receivers like mine (VSX-01) and as new as the 2010 generation (VSX-21 and others) are reported to have this issue. This is rare audio, as far as I know only recently available with Criterion releases of older stereo movies. It's not the same as regular DTS-HD MA 2.0, which works correctly.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QDXF3P2V

[Mark_A_W]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

The limitations were in the DirectShow component, and you're free to use whatever version of the decoder you want.

What issues with 6.1, btw? The latest version, 1.1.0.8, decodes 6.1 just fine, except that it double the back center to both back left and right (making it 7.1) - but me personally, since i dont have a back-center anyway, thats welcome.



Thats too much work for too little benefit. There is barely any 7.1 material, and its kinda alot of work to figure out how a dll works if you know nothing about it.

From memory, an early version would just ignore the 6th channel - at least in eac3to.

Doubling the back centre to make 7.1 is perfect.

What does 1.1.0.7 do?

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Andy o

I'm getting static with DTS-HD MA 2.0 and the Arcsoft dll. The LAV decoder status says "dts" only. 5.1 and 7.1 work fine with LAV. The Arcsoft decoder does decode 2.0 OK.

This is an audio mka sample, it's the same with mkv videos.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CSCFJ85R

Fixed. It still says only "dts", but so does LAV Splitter, are you sure its actually HD?

It decodes fine now, though. The problem was that the ArcSoft decoder is outputting 16-bit for that file, and that totally confused my code.

Edit: Your actual HD file works, too.

[Gleb Egorych]

nevcairiel, thanks for that great dts addition!

I have a question about TrueHD. LAV Audio requires TrueHD subtype from a splitter to decode TrueHD and LAV Splitter gives it. But Haali and Gabest splitters send TrueHD with AC3 subtypes and in this case LAV Audio decoding fails. Could you please fix this if it doesn't require a lot of rework?

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Gleb Egorych

I have a question about TrueHD. LAV Audio requires TrueHD subtype from a splitter to decode TrueHD and LAV Splitter gives it. But Haali and Gabest splitters send TrueHD with AC3 subtypes and in this case LAV Audio decoding fails. Could you please fix this if it doesn't require a lot of rework?

TrueHD is *NOT* AC3, its not even related to it, i do not know how they ever came up with the idea to use the AC3 subtype. Use a splitter that actually knows how to deal with TrueHD, and you won't have those problems.
The only thing they have in common is that both are Dolby products...

It'll be fixed eventually, but not so soon.

Originally Posted by Mark_A_W

From memory, early version would just ignore the 6th channel - at least in eac3to.

Doubling the back centre to make 7.1 is perfect.

What does 1.1.0.7 do?

Here is a 6.1 sample, at least the volume status page in LAV Audio shows audio coming out of the back channels (with 1.1.0.8), can't say about .7, feel free to try it.

http://www.multiupload.com/YML3MLBPYP

[jmone]

Originally Posted by jmone

Nevcairiel, i read with interest on P143 your testing of containers / codecs especially the issues with MKV's produced using mkvmerge and DTS. Are there any issues with DD+ and LPCM in MKV (I see you tested on TS but not MKV)?

The reason I ask is I've still got to convert my old HD-DVD's to a more friendly format (most have DD+ but some have DTS-HD), and to date non of the GUI options grab me as ideal:
1) TS or BD Stucture (eg Clown_BD): Get to keep any subs in PGS but all DD+ will be converted to DTS or LPCM
2) MKV (eg AnotherEAC3toGUI): Uses mkvmerge and the GUI seem to want to convert both the DD+ track to something else and the PGS subs get converted to VOBSUB

This is a task I want to do once so thanks for the testing as I had no idea of the issues with mkvmerge!

OT and FYI - I leaning towards converting all my HD-DVD's to a BD stucture on the HDD (using Clown) and converting all DD+ tracks to LPCM. The results play perfectly with LAVSplitter/Decoder including Subs and Chapters with no transcoding issues for the Audio. The only downside is the extra space that LPCM takes up over DD+ but...it ain't that much anyway. The other "benefit" is you can then burn the structure to a BD disc if you need to play it back in a BD player.

[nevcairiel]

I dunno why it converts the Subs to VOBSUB, PGS is fine in MKV .. on another note, doesn't HD-DVD use extended VOBSUBs, and not PGS?

Anyhow, you could also use FLAC in MKV.

PS:
The DTS in MKV by mkvmerge "problem" isn't really a problem, its just not perfect.
I have been thinking about just turning the logic off for DTS in MKV, or at least relaxing it even more.

Not that it bothers me much, i think i have 2 actual MKVs with DTS-HD, i usually keep all my HD movies either as BD structure or just keep them on the BD disc.

[jmone]

I was under the understanding the HD-DVD also used PGS but the format was a slightly different implementation and the clownBD calls BDSup2Sub (".sup" "/res:1080") to convert the extracted Subtitle.SUP file to one of a similar size that is then muxed back in.

[nevcairiel]

What i could find on the topic is that HD-DVD either uses default DVD VOBSUBs, or an extended version with more colors.

[jmone]

Yeah, don't know - but asked the Q over at the BDsup2sub thread - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...76#post1500776

[madshi]

HD DVD (without a hyphen!) uses an extended version of DVD subtitles.