madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Xaurus]

Ok so I've jumped onto the latest madvr with this new NGU scaler (which is excellent), but I must have missed something about the change of all the settings. Where did image doubling go? I understand that the settings dialogues have been changed but I can't find any info from madshi in his latest updates in this thread.

My point is, I find the new settings kind of confusing, that's all. Especially with regards to the image doubling.

[fedpul]

Originally Posted by omarank

Looks like the image in Option 1 (u2xyyDQ.png) is the one scaled with Jinc after NGU doubling. I believe though this kind of challenge would be more fair for movie content and not anime content.

This weekend I will be posting the results, and I will upload the same challenge but with a movie instead of anime, the next challenge will last one Week, from one weekend to another.

Enviado desde mi MI 4LTE mediante Tapatalk

[seiyafan]

Originally Posted by Xaurus

Ok so I've jumped onto the latest madvr with this new NGU scaler (which is excellent), but I must have missed something about the change of all the settings. Where did image doubling go? I understand that the settings dialogues have been changed but I can't find any info from madshi in his latest updates in this thread.

My point is, I find the new settings kind of confusing, that's all. Especially with regards to the image doubling.

Doubling and upscaling have merged into one. So in upscaling if you choose NGU or NNEDI3 it's doubling.

[cork_OS]

Originally Posted by omarank

Looks like the image in Option 1 (u2xyyDQ.png) is the one scaled with Jinc after NGU doubling. I believe though this kind of challenge would be more fair for movie content and not anime content.

Agreed, it's a bit more focused/sharp.

[kalston]

Originally Posted by thighhighs

People talk about g-sync here, but what about another game technology - multi-gpu support? Because some users now have two gpu's or dual gpu like 295x2 and for madvr it completely useless or negative. I hope madvr can support SLI\CF in future.

Multi-GPU is a complicated mess and everyone is giving up on it for a reason - game devs and AMD/nvidia are all dropping the ball. Only DX12 could save it but that requires extra work (and training) for the game/app developers. I think only ONE game has dx12 multi GPU support as of right now (the last Deus EX IIRC? and that's not a really well optimized game to begin with).

Just look at how few recent releases support multi-GPU and how bad it is most of the time when they actually do. Poor scaling, bugs, (micro)stuttering etc...

This is even more ridiculous than asking to support VRR for video playback IMO.

[ROKUGAN]

Originally Posted by Mistery 73

a greeting to all of you I need your advice on what video card to buy using madVR in 4k ... I was focused on this ZOTAC GeForce 1080 GTX AMP 8GB Extreme Edition .. accept any advice .. thanks

I can vouch for that card as it´s the same I have in my 4K setup. It comes with an excellent cooler (average temp 65C) and high frequencies out of the box (typically 2050-2100 Mhz).

Having said that:

- All GTX 1080 models perform more or less the same, with a 100-150 Mhz max variance depending on the quality of the cooler (Pascal is pretty temp sensitive). If you´re not also gaming, just buy the cheapest version you can find. Games @ 4K will stress the card much further than madvr.

- A 1060, 1070 or any other card will work as well in 4K, they will be just somewhat slower in rendering time. It all depends on how important is to you to crank up the quality settings in madvr. I had a 980ti previously (= 1070) in the same 4K setup and run without problems. I wouldn´t upgrade only for madvr. I would do it if you´re going to game in 4K as well.

- If money is not a factor, wait until 1Q'17 and buy instead a 1080Ti, which will be around 25-30% faster than the 1080. Expected to be a 850-900$ card, though.

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by Xaurus

Ok so I've jumped onto the latest madvr with this new NGU scaler (which is excellent), but I must have missed something about the change of all the settings. Where did image doubling go? I understand that the settings dialogues have been changed but I can't find any info from madshi in his latest updates in this thread.

My point is, I find the new settings kind of confusing, that's all. Especially with regards to the image doubling.

If you choose to use NGU for luma doubling (and you will use it, because it is excellent), you won't be able to select the algorithms that you desire for chroma upscaling and luma upscaling/downscaling anymore, to use after the luma doubling.

For instance, NGU can't be used to upscale 720p to UHD with my config anymore, because of the rendering times of the forced algorithms to have approximately the same quality. But you can use the v0.91.1 version to pick the algorithms that you want to fine-tune the image quality vs rendering times for your configuration.

I have a perfect result with those with my little 970 GTX :

chroma upscaling : super-xbr - sharpness: 150 (only NNEDI3 and NGU give better results, but rendering times are awful)
image downscaling : Catmull-Rom (if you want soft) or Lanczos 3 (if you want sharp) [both AR + LL], but I prefer sharp
image doubling : double luma resolution - 2x supersampling - NGU, medium quality
image upscaling : Lanczos 3 AR (sharper than Jinc, and very good to use after luma doubling to upscale anything < FHD to UHD)
upscaling refinement : add grain 3-4 (new refinement, still testing which is best, 4 for now)
artifact removal : reduce banding artifacts (high/high) + reduce ringing artifacts only (reduce dark halos remove too many details)
dithering : Ordered Dithering + use colored noise + change dither for every frame (good rendering times and almost identical to Error Diffusion)

[har3inger]

I am also noticing far faster rendering on Dx9 compared to dx11--it's the difference between not being able to run NGU high at all and running NGU high comfortably.

Edit: Disregard that. After switching back and forth a couple times, they're the same (faster) speed now. No idea why.

Is there any reason not to use dx9, given that it seems more efficient? I'm guessing it may be faster on older GPU architectures.

I'm using NGU in conjunction with "reduce ringing artifacts". I definitely notice less source haloing and haven't really found enough ugly interactions between the two.

[AngelGraves13]

I'm also not a fan of bicubic for downscaling from NGU. Jinc is better

[pose]

Originally Posted by AngelGraves13

I'm also not a fan of bicubic for downscaling from NGU. Jinc is better

Jinc was not available for downscaling in previous builds as well.

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by har3inger

Is there any reason not to use dx9, given that it seems more efficient?

For one, 10 bit is only available on D3D11 fullscreen exclusive. I don't know if it makes a huge difference, but IIRC it's supposed to help prevent banding.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by pose

Jinc was not available for downscaling in previous builds as well.

Jinc was added for downscaling a few versions ago (v0.90.12).

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Jinc was added for downscaling a few versions ago (v0.90.12).

Exactly.

Here you can see a comparison between Jinc, Lanczos3, Bicubic150 and SSim1D100 for downscaling after 2x supersampling with NGU:



And zoomed:



Make your choice. For me it is Lanczos3 because Bicubic150 has too much aliasing and Jinc is a little bit too soft.

[har3inger]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

For one, 10 bit is only available on D3D11 fullscreen exclusive. I don't know if it makes a huge difference, but IIRC it's supposed to help prevent banding.

Right, I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

10 bit output only benefits you if your display/GPU/cable supports 10 bit. Otherwise you are far better using the native bit-depth and good madvr dithering than whatever hardware/GPU dithering/truncation your setup would perform in 10bit mode.

[JarrettH]

I think cubic was chosen because - back 10 pages ago - it was the difference between being able to run ngu-low and it being unusable.

Maybe Catmull should be used in place of bicubic150? I've never a/b them though. I thought we were all happy with Catmull, especially as as downscaler, for a long time

[pose]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Jinc was added for downscaling a few versions ago (v0.90.12).

I missed that, thanks. Was it worth to use with high quality NNEDI3 or NGU settings over SSIM?

[Uoppi]

I was sceptical at first but I must say I really like the preset approach.

Letting madvr choose what's "good enough" for a given situation - based on user-definable quality settings - is a welcome improvement in my books.

I can actually see myself scrapping about half of my profiles, which were a convoluted mess to set up, not to mention test each profile every time some algo or setting got fine-tuned. I don't have the time anymore (wife would say I NEVER had the time lol).

If madvr wants to expand beyond being a niche product, simplifying the UX is vital and madshi is on the correct path.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

Make your choice. For me it is Lanczos3 because Bicubic150 has too much aliasing and Jinc is a little bit too soft.

Thx for the example.
To me eyes, the downscaled 1080p picure doesn't look aliased with bicubic 150 on my 109ppi display. It just looks sharper to me.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Uoppi

I was sceptical at first but I must say I really like the preset approach.

If madvr wants to expand beyond being a niche product, simplifying the UX is vital and madshi is on the correct path.

Agreed, the performance optimizations possible make presets worthwhile. Suddenly, everyone can run NGU high by choosing the right companion settings.

My own settings are much faster with the given presets.

[madshi]

I've heard a lot of feedback about the new settings dialog organization. Thanks, guys.

But I don't remember anybody commenting yet on the new NGU-Low quality level. It's faster but softer than the old NGU-Low. But is it still "acceptable"? How's sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for you? Is it worthy of the "NGU" sticker?