MagicYUV - a new fast lossless video codec

[preludium975]

How can i use DaVinci Resolve with MagicYUV? I need compression, the lossless uncompressed video is very very big.

[WorBry]

You can't, nor UTVideo. DaVinci Resolve doesn't support third-party VFW codecs per se. The only system-supported, 'near/visually lossless' AVI codecs are Cineform and Grass Valley HQ/HQX. Otherwise the same in Quicktime (MOV) format, along with DNxHD, DNxHR and ProRes. DNxHD and DNxHR in MXF format also. Take your pick.

[preludium975]

Originally Posted by WorBry

You can't, nor UTVideo. DaVinci Resolve doesn't support third-party VFW codecs per se. The only system-supported, 'near/visually lossless' AVI codecs are Cineform and Grass Valley HQ/HQX. Otherwise the same in Quicktime (MOV) format, along with DNxHD, DNxHR and ProRes. DNxHD and DNxHR in MXF format also. Take your pick.

What is the best encoder in Resolve for lossless encoding? The size is the point.

[WorBry]

Thought I'd been clear. The only option for 'lossless encoding', whether transcoding for input (using Resolve's own Transcode function) or rendered output, is uncompressed. What is your video source material, out of interest ?

BTW, ProRes encoding is only available in the Mac version, but the Windows version will accept ProRes input.

Edit: I see the Studio (purchased license) version of Resolve 15 now supports Kakadu-based lossless JPEG 2000 encoding.

[foxyshadis]

If you're in production, you should give up the idea of a lossless intermediate at all stages. The storage and throughput requirements will absolutely kill you, even if you did use software that gave you the flexibility. Grass Valley (Canopus) HQX Superfine is an amazingly good codec that not only holds up to repeated re-encoding, but to extensive transformation between re-encodings. Cineform is great too, but HQX Superfine gives you double the bitrate for the perfectionist in you. The occasional off-by-one, especially in 10-bit, really isn't worth 10x the storage space.

What you really need to worry about is your HDR format and coverage. That's what's going to get you.

[Cary Knoop]

Originally Posted by preludium975

What the best encoder in Resolve for lossless encoding? The size is the point.

Apart from uncompressed, there is only one, the Kakadu JPEG 2000 encoder.

[kolak]

Originally Posted by foxyshadis

If you're in production, you should give up the idea of a lossless intermediate at all stages. The storage and throughput requirements will absolutely kill you, even if you did use software that gave you the flexibility. Grass Valley (Canopus) HQX Superfine is an amazingly good codec that not only holds up to repeated re-encoding, but to extensive transformation between re-encodings. Cineform is great too, but HQX Superfine gives you double the bitrate for the perfectionist in you. The occasional off-by-one, especially in 10-bit, really isn't worth 10x the storage space.

What you really need to worry about is your HDR format and coverage. That's what's going to get you.

HQX at best setting is below Cineform FS2.

Cineform's "issue" is that sometimes pre-compressed sources are getting encoded with fairly low bitrate, even for best setting. Good part- it keeps PSNR very steady, so all frames have relatively same quality.

These ares results for never compressed shot on film STEM DCI test footage (going from v210, back to v210 without any RGB on the way):

Cineform FS2:
PSNR y:56.9 u:57.0 v:58.5
Average: 57.3 dB
Min: 56.6 dB
Avg bitrate: 226Mbit

Cineform FS1:
PSNR y:50.6 u:50.9 v:54.1
Average: 51.3 dB
Min: 49.9 dB
Avg bitrate: 136Mbit

ProResHQ
PSNR y:55.1 u:55.7 v:57.7
Average: 55.8 dB
Min: 46.5 dB
Avg bitrate: 172Mbit

GV HQX (Q=0, S=100)
PSNR y:56.0 u:53.9 v:58.3
Average: 55.8 dB
Min: 52.6 dB
Avg bitrate: 219Mbit

DNxHR HQ
PSNR y:54.0 u:53.9 v:55.5
Average: 54.3 dB
Min: 45.2 dB
Avg bitrate: 176Mbit

DNxHD HQ
PSNR y:53.3 u:50.7 v:53.9
Average: 52.6 dB
Min: 43.5 dB
Avg bitrate: 176Mbit

XAVC-I 200
PSNR y:53.2 u:51.2 v:54.3
Average: 52.8 dB
Min: 44.3 dB
Avg bitrate: 183Mbit

ProResXQ 444 (converted back to 10bit 422)
Avg y:62.5 dB
Min y:57.6 dB
Avg bitrate: 378Mbit

[WorBry]

The Grass Valley HQX encoder implementation in Resolve is 8-bit only though.

[kolak]

It's not. It's 10bit.
It's native implementation over codec SDK, not anymore over QT engine.

[WorBry]

That's interesting. Just ran some Cineform (Best=FilmScan 2) and GV HQX (Best) transcodes, both AVI and MOV, from a 10-bit 422 source using Resolve's transcode function. Indeed, Resolve reports all four transcodes to be 10-bit, according to Clip Details. Yet, MediaInfo reports 8-bit for the GV HQX AVI transcode (and no bit depth at all for the other 3).

[kolak]

Bit depth report for Cineform or HQX is not reliable in mediainfo. It's more a guess than real info from headers. Don't rely on it. It's not a proper way of validating it anyway.

[WorBry]

Good to know GV HQX is really 10-bit anyway.

[kolak]

Yep, it's proper integration (also on Linux if I'm correct), but Resolve and Edius are about the only apps where you can import/export HQX at 10bit.
There is workaround for AE also (+decoding in ffmpeg). Not big choice of apps though.

You better of using DNxHR which is also good and has RGB and YUV modes for 4:4:4. It also supports 12bit for 4:4:4. Cineform 4:4:4 mode is always RGB and ProRes 4:4:4 is always (95% sure) YUV+ 12bit is not really kept. It's more like 11.5 bits (at least in my test in AE and Resolve).

[preludium975]

I still didn't get a specific answer to my question. You've written a lot of encoders.

So what is the best, nearly/real lossless encoder with 10 bit support? I have 2TB free space for export the movies.

[kolak]

Don't ask for best or you will get banned.

It's your choice- what works for you. DNxHR or ProRes depending on the OS are good choices.
Do you need near lossless? What is your source, what you do with it in Resolve and what are you going to do with it after export? Lossless or intermediate codecs are used to provide high quality end master which is later used further eg. passed to 3rd parties for further transcoding for web etc.

[preludium975]

Originally Posted by kolak

Don't ask for best or you will get banned.

It's your choice- what works for you. DNxHR or ProRes depending on the OS are good choices.
Do you need near lossless? What is your source, what you do with it in Resolve and what are you going to do with it after export? Lossless or intermediate codecs are used to provide high quality end master which is later used further eg. passed to 3rd parties for further transcoding for web etc.

Firtst, I tonemap HDR -> SDR, then I going to export this in 10bit.
Then I load it to AvsPmod, then i will write the filterchain (Convertbits 10bit -> 8bit, dirty.lines fix, crop, resizemod, etc..).
Then encode it with x264.

[kolak]

DNxHR HQX or Cineform (best quality setting) will be good enough.
Is Resolve HDR to SDR conversion any decent? I think you may get as good results natively in avs or vs and avoid whole Resolve route.

[WorBry]

Originally Posted by WorBry

Good to know GV HQX is really 10-bit anyway.

Interesting observation here also:

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...434432#p434432

I can see I've going to have to install the Grass Valley VFW codecs again to satisfy my curiosity about this.

[kolak]

Not much to satisfy- HQX VFW codec is 8bit on input/output and that's about it
It has been like this from the beginning and unlikely to change. GV is not really interested to provide new version.
Edius is actually dying.

[preludium975]

I tried DNxHR HQX and GoPro CineForm. All of them, after exporting, at 30 seconds-1 minute intervals duplicate frames. Like fps drop, but not fps drop, its just sometimes duplicate frames.

Here is a test encode for example, at 00:43-00:47. here

Who has an idea?