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Old 26th January 2016, 10:17   #781  |  Link
GamBIT_Rus
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I can definitely say that almost any movie has the 'crop' rip edition. It is very very popular indeed, at least in our segment. Each movie usually gets such rips like 'half o/u', 'full o/u' (much rare yet) and 'crop half o/u', with s/b/s versions too ('crop full o/u' I havent seen but maybe and this takes place).
But unfortunately many coders have to use the very poor methods or to use not so qualified progs.
People who watch this movies do understand that some part of image is lost and could be some problems with the borders (You have noticed) but they are agree with it.
I ask this not personally but for the people who does encode crops. BD3D2MK3D is not popular now amongst them due to the lack of the used options like cutting the borders. If they could do this then they would use BD3D2MK3D and it would give the much better quality of the rips - that's great.
For You could better understand the cutting, I would example the following - usually they cut approx 140 pixels up and 140 down the BD frame (to cut the black borders) and 244 left and 240 right to gain the normal aspect. Later this 1432*800 they upscale to initial 1920*1080 and are happy :-)
Unfortunatelly I'm not a programist anymore, it was many years ago when I was doing this, so I personally cant modify the BD3D2MK3D code or fix the demuxed project with the strings of avisynth code. Especially it is useles to try (even if I could) because the others would not do it each time they want to transcode the BD3D. It is too much complicated. Whey simply will take the other instruments, bad but easy. You can help.

I would suggest you to take the special TAB named like 'image conversion' or smth, where would be placed all the present and future image works. Transform to 720p already, for beginning. Maybe and subtitles hardcode too (as it is the image-changing action).
I recall with a pleasure the VirtualDub project, now discontinued, where we could do almost anything without 'everytime programming', only using a similar GUI like yours. I hope You know this program and understand that I'm talking about. The conception was decode -> image manipulation -> encode.
It used avisynth too (or smth like that), got a set of effects, including the resize, zoom, denoise etc. Combining that plugins I could do almost anything with avi.
So I dont ask You to repeat all the functionality of VurtualDub, but such a TAB can definitely attract many people to your very good program. You dont even have to think how people would calculate the pixels to cut, for example. Whey could easily do it in any other program like DVDFab. The only thing you could easily help them would be the checkbox 'preserve the aspect' - if they enter blackborders cut the BD3D2MK3D will fulfil the remainings. And that's all, people are responsible themselves for the result, You dont have to worry. Whey do understand that they're doing.
Please, think it over, dont quick refuse. If I haven't could ensure You to add the image-transformation functionality then it is the last try (for not to bother You). Thanks.

Last edited by GamBIT_Rus; 26th January 2016 at 10:21.
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Old 26th January 2016, 10:51   #782  |  Link
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Originally Posted by GamBIT_Rus View Post
You dont have to worry. Whey do understand that they're doing.
Well, I don't think so. There are too many butchered (or cropped to 800 pixels) 3D video on the net to even imagine that it is a good think to let the users do that. They do NOT understand the implications of cropping a 3D video, otherwise you'll NEVER see cropped 3D movies.

Also, I forgot to give the most important argument against cropping, resizing and/or zooming: subtitles. The 3D subtitles are authored to be placed on a precise position on screen, and they cannot be moved elsewhere because the depth of a precise subtitle is computed so that it doesn't enter within the surrounding objects or characters. So, if you crop and resize the original video, even if you maintain the 16:9 aspect ratio, the subtitles will still be at their original positions on screen, now wrong in the scene. That's also something to take into account. Do you imagine a crop option available only when no subtitles are demuxed, and prohibited elsewhere? (I agree that it should be possible to hardcode the subtitles BEFORE the crop and resize, so that they are still at the right position, but unfortunately BD3D2MK3D hardcodes the final 3D subtitles on the combined Half-SBS/T&B video, at the very end of the operation. I don't want to change that. And anyway, that will not work for muxed subtitles.)

So, there are too many good reasons to refuse to implement that, and no good reason to do it, except perhaps the popularity of BD3D2MK3D. But since BD3D2MK3D is not a commercial program, the number of users doesn't matter much. I want it to be the best 3DBD converter, and I will not add features that will lower its quality just to attract more peoples. In other words, peoples who think that cropping is a good thing should use DVDFab. (IIRC, it does the cropping automatically by default!) I keep BD3D2MK3D for the expert and demanding users, and they should know that cropping is never an advantage.

If I add a "Crop" button somewhere in the GUI, that will be ONLY to display a message explaining why a 3D clip should NEVER be cropped. Certainly not to do it!
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Old 26th January 2016, 16:14   #783  |  Link
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If You really want to know smth about crops then I'd say that there's no such a problem for people with the subs You described since almost nobody hardcodes the pgs. In 99.99% crops is used the SRT format. And I use it always for good compatibility since my rips are downloaded very often. Even because the TVs usually do not support anything else except SRT. Even more, most of the people do not watch the subs at all. If it is not the Avatar for example.
People who watch crops dont demand the professional abilities, but the most important thing they want is 'no squares' in the picture. BD3D2MK3D can get it. If it would be able to encode not only the full picture. The most loss of picture in the crops is not of the things You said but of the wrong methods to get such a crop. They usually encode twice to get the crop, sometimes with the 1 pass - of course the picture is bad. They need an instrument to do it good, as much as possible, that's the problem. It's not of they do not want a quality at all.

Having done the 'Image Works' tab You could make the hardcode box to be disabled if a crop action is chosen. And no problem. If anyone wants the crop - he will not get the hardcoded subs, and I believe he will not even notice that. Because he doesnt need it at all.
If You do the program not for youself only but for the people then it might be a good idea to give them a chance to choose what they really want. With be best quality of possible. Crop is the existing and popular occurrence. You could warn the people of the problems with crop, but let them.
Anyway you did 720p although it is a very bad thing too, isnt it? It makes a loss of detail, looks like absolutely non-professional. BUT. It is needed to someone, and that's why it's done. And it's good.

I dont look crops. Personally. I dont look halfs. I've got 4K and watch only the full frame with 2160p. But it doesnt mean that I guess people are wrong watching the crop halfs. It is their decision, not mine.
If You do not make it nothing would happen with crops, they will still. Since there's a lot of encoding progs. Yes, it would be much better being done with BD3D2MK3D, but BD3D2MK3D isnt able to stop it, if it would not be implemented, I think You understand this.
I see that BD3D2MK3D is a very new promising project and it has a lot to grow. I've suggested a lot but if you are not interested in the suggestions so its your choice, of course.

Last edited by GamBIT_Rus; 26th January 2016 at 16:18.
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Old 26th January 2016, 16:58   #784  |  Link
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SRT for 3D is another absurdity. Have you tried to watch 2D subtitles over a 3D video? Your head explodes after 10 subtitles or so! Subtitles must be in 3D to watch a 3D video. Unfortunately, it is not always easy to display the 3D subtitles correctly. Only a few software players have the necessary options, and probably no TV can do it (yet). It's why BD3D2MK3D has an option to hardcode the 3D subs. You know that. But with the right combination of a good software player and a 3D monitor or TV, it is possible to watch muxed 3D subs correctly. I don't want to ruin that possibility to add an useless crop option.

I'm convinced that many peoples begin to understand that cropping a 3D movie is not a good idea. It's certainly not now that I will tell them that they are wrong by adding that option. Anyway, I have already added a Help -> Why no Crop option? menu to explain why I will never add that possibility. I hope that will help the remaining crop fanatics to change their minds.

Like Coluche (a French humorist) said, "It's not because they are numerous to be wrong that they are right."
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Old 27th January 2016, 09:45   #785  |  Link
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Help wanted!

Donald Graft has just released a beta of DGMVCSource that should fix the black frames bug, occurring with some movies like Everest or Creature from the Black Lagoon and discussed here.

I will test it myself in software mode, but since I don't have the right CPU, I can't test it in hardware mode. Someone can test it with a recent version of libmfxhw32.dll? Frank? You can download the beta here. And, if you need it, you can download this short sample from Creature from the Black Lagoon.
Thanks in advance!
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Old 28th January 2016, 23:32   #786  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
I will certainly NEVER implement a crop feature for 3D output. It's a total absurdity. The 3D video standard IMPOSES the 16:9 aspect ratio. And the 3D clips must be in HD. So, ONLY 1920x1080 and, to some extent, 720x1280 are legit for 3D clips. Many TVs do not support other aspect ratios at all, or they deform the image horribly to restore a full-screen display (like my Samsung). And anyway, probably all 3D TVs are optimised to play the 3D features in full HD, and are much less good when they must play butchered 3D videos...

I add that cropping the black bars is not really a gain of disc space, because the pure black can be compressed extremely well, and therefore it is really a bad idea to sacrifice quality and compatibility just for a few MBs of disc space.

In short, cropping the 3D videos is unfortunately a common mistake, and I will certainly not encourage peoples to do it.
Right! As a professional I have to agree. 3D standard and acceleration chips need uncropped sizes like 1920x1080.

BTW
If you resize a 1080p BD to 2160p for the 4k LG TV you never get more resolution! Sharpness stays on the source res 1080. No need to resize a BD, modern 4k TVs can scale up.
Much more important is a good 3D player. Built-in players of TVs are very stupid and mostly accept only standard 3D stuff.

Last edited by frank; 29th January 2016 at 12:46.
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Old 29th January 2016, 00:59   #787  |  Link
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No issue with DGMVCSource 100b24

Problem solved!
DGMVCSource100b24 works, no black frames anymore.
Many thanks to Donald Graft.

Tested with sample TEST.avs and Everest 2015.
Asus Zenbook, I7 GFX5500, Win 10 prof

Last edited by frank; 29th January 2016 at 01:11.
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Old 29th January 2016, 11:18   #788  |  Link
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Thanks for the test! I'll report it to DG, and I suppose he will release the new version officially soon. I'll release an update of BD3D2MK3D when it will be available.
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Old 29th January 2016, 13:25   #789  |  Link
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Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
...
See also Settings -> Power Plans. And especially the Help topic in that menu.

You can also use BlockSleep" created by Slavanap (here) to force the PC to stay "alive" during the encoding, without having to modify temporarily the power plan. You will have to edit __ENCODE_3D.cmd to move the x264 command within blockspeed. I may add that feature in BD3D2MK3D later, but I'm not sure, because currently blockspeed.exe is detected as a virus by many antivirus programs, due to the way it works. That detections are certainly false positives, but I don't want to release it within the toolset directory of BD3D2MK3D because that may scare most users. So, currently, only the power plan setting is available in BD3D2MK3D.
Here's a lightweight version re-written in assembler.
binary
source
virustotal report
There's still possibility that some less-known antiviruses will detect virus even in that small executable. Unfortunately, I can do nothing about it.
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Old 29th January 2016, 14:27   #790  |  Link
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Great! 0 false positive detection. Perfect!

Of course, it is always possible that a not-so-good antivirus flags it as infected, but now the user can verify with VirusTotal, and have the evidence that it's a false positive. So, nothing stops me to use it any more. I will remove the power plan settings in BD3D2MK3D and use blocksleep instead in the next version.
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Old 30th January 2016, 14:28   #791  |  Link
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Oh, I like the power plan solution. Works perfectly and safely without adding software.
Please make it selectable.
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Old 30th January 2016, 16:00   #792  |  Link
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OK. Anyway, currently, the BlockSleep solution doesn't work. I can't launch the exes with arguments. It seems that there is a bug. Therefore I will not change the power plan stuff yet. And probably, later, I'll add BlockSpeed as an alternative solution, but I'll keep the Power Plans too.
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Old 31st January 2016, 01:30   #793  |  Link
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OK. Anyway, currently, the BlockSleep solution doesn't work. I can't launch the exes with arguments. It seems that there is a bug. Therefore I will not change the power plan stuff yet. And probably, later, I'll add BlockSpeed as an alternative solution, but I'll keep the Power Plans too.
Oh, excuse me, I had to include usage example. First of all, first argument for blocksleep must me a full path for executable, and you can't execute arbitrary batch command with it, but if you run cmd.exe with /C argument, then you can.
Here's a batch file example with switch whether use blocksleep or not:
Code:
set command=^
dir "c:\Program Files" ^| ^
more

for %%i in (cmd.exe) do set "cmd=%%~$PATH:i"
echo %cmd%
set use_blocksleep=1
if %use_blocksleep%==0 %command%
if %use_blocksleep%==1 blocksleep.exe %cmd% /C "%command%"
note this part: ^| -- you need to escape | signs, or any other signs (< -- ^<, etc.) that could be interpreted as i/o redirection.

And I found one minor bug in blocksleep, as it always complaning to GetProcessExitCode. Here's a fix:
binary
source
virus total report
and again this Qihoo-360 antivirus detects it as a virus for whatever reason... It detected virus for previous executable but later its result was fixed. Let's see how long it'll take to fix result for this 1 byte different version.
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Old 31st January 2016, 09:51   #794  |  Link
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OK, I'll try it that way.

But is it really necessary to provide the full path if the exe is in the current directory? IMO, that doesn't make sense, and it's a major drawback for BD3D2MK3D. Currently, a project generated by BD3D2MK3D can be moved elsewhere, because I have paid attention to never use absolute paths (except to the toolset directory). I really want to keep that feature.
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Old 31st January 2016, 22:18   #795  |  Link
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OK, I'll try it that way.

But is it really necessary to provide the full path if the exe is in the current directory? IMO, that doesn't make sense, and it's a major drawback for BD3D2MK3D. Currently, a project generated by BD3D2MK3D can be moved elsewhere, because I have paid attention to never use absolute paths (except to the toolset directory). I really want to keep that feature.
You need absolute path only for cmd.exe. In the script above I'm showing how to get it without specifying full path, e.g. "c:\Windows\system32\cmd.exe"
Just replace
Code:
dir "c:\Program Files" ^| ^
more
with the command you want to execute. And don't forget to escape with ^ i/o redirection characters: | < >, as I did in this example.

Last edited by slavanap; 31st January 2016 at 22:20.
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Old 31st January 2016, 22:47   #796  |  Link
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Yep. I succeeded with some simple commands, but I can't get the command I need for BD3D2MK3D to work. avs2yuv seems unable to write to stdout, and doesn't recognise the parameter - (a simple dash) as a valid output file. Therefore, I can't pipe its output to x264.

The solution is to launch the entire __ENCODE_3D.cmd script within BlockSleep. That works fine, and it's also much more simple for me. I have just to modify slightly __ENCODE_3D_LOW_PRIORITY.cmd.

Currently:
Code:
start /low __ENCODE_3D.cmd
With BlockSleep:
Code:
start /low "D:\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\BlockSleep.exe" __ENCODE_3D.cmd
But that means that the user will have to launch that script instead of the main batch file __ENCODE_3D.cmd. Not a big problem IMO, as it's already necessary to encode with the low CPU priority.
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Old 1st February 2016, 05:20   #797  |  Link
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I suggest this code -- I'm not sure that your will work.
Code:
for %%i in (cmd.exe) do set "cmd=%%~$PATH:i"
start /low "BlockSleep.exe" %cmd% /C call __ENCODE_3D.cmd
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Old 1st February 2016, 11:06   #798  |  Link
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Right. I did a test, and my method doesn't work.

[EDIT] Just tested with your method and it doesn't work either. The computer goes to sleep when it is encoding. I'm puzzled.

[EDIT2] Tried again today, because yesterday Windows Update was working in the background, and it may have influenced the result, but I have the same result now. The computer goes to sleep anyway. So, it appears that either BlockSleep doesn't work, or there is something special with cmd.exe. Could it be because cmd.exe is loaded from system32 and is therefore a 64-bit program, but the main x264 process is 32-bit? Anyway, the CMD window is not closed, so I assume that its process remains active, and BlockSleep should work. I don't understand.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 13:24   #799  |  Link
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http://www.softwareok.com/?seite=Microsoft/DontSleep
maybe to try this?
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Old 2nd February 2016, 13:39   #800  |  Link
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Right! As a professional I have to agree. 3D standard and acceleration chips need uncropped sizes like 1920x1080.

BTW
If you resize a 1080p BD to 2160p for the 4k LG TV you never get more resolution! Sharpness stays on the source res 1080. No need to resize a BD, modern 4k TVs can scale up.
Much more important is a good 3D player. Built-in players of TVs are very stupid and mostly accept only standard 3D stuff.
As a professional I can't agree with you because you havent understood what I was talking about.
Nobody wants to simply upscale 1920*1080 to 2160, it's wrong and useless in 3D. If you do really know what is the stereopair then would know that it is the couple of the frames, one above another.
1920*1080+1920*1080= 1920*2160. And it's the ONLY way to watch the 1080p initial picture on the passive 4K 3D TV if you watch exactly the stereopair (not the BluRay3D).
If to upscale smth to 2160 - it means that the initial picture is changed in any way (zoomed for ex) and then is upscaled to 1920*1080, and after that is combined into full stereopair - 1920*2160.

And nobody talks about to cut the picture to non-standard resolution. Crops (but more likely to be called "Zooms") are made to match exactly the initial resolution 1920*1080 or 1920*2160. It is only zoomed.
The real "Crop-only" - yes, they are non-standard, and that's why LG (for ex) cannot show right o/u 1920*1600 (while plays half o/u 1920*800 without a problem - due to very raw firmware). I was not asking this feature. I asked a real zoom.

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