Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > New and alternative video codecs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st March 2003, 05:38   #181  |  Link
wing1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 280
hehehe... only a 2100+ xp, but that will do.

@karl

I am playing around with the settings in the audience file, I am using the default values, your recommended values, and my own: I did noticed that the latency startup setting is drastically increase from default to your recommendation. What exactly does this value do? Is it something similar to buffer time? I did noticed that if this value is increased, the playback seem to be sharper.

Last edited by wing1; 21st March 2003 at 16:34.
wing1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2003, 17:22   #182  |  Link
midiguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally posted by wing1
hehehe... only a 2100+ xp, but that will do.

@karl

I am playing around with the settings in the audience file, I am using the default values, your recommended values, and my own: I did noticed that the latency startup setting is drastically increase from default to your recommendation. What exactly does this value do? Is it something similar to buffer time? I did noticed that if this value is increased, the playback seem to be sharper.
if the playback is sharper than that would most likely mean your film was compressed with better settings. usually when the video looks more "blurry" it is because of the in-loop filtering or post-processing having to cover up too many artifacts. so if it is sharper, prolly means less artifacts to cover up. that's generalizing the situation I gues, but it gets the point accross.
midiguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 11:27   #183  |  Link
Wilbert
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 6,364
@karl,

Can anyone of you make AviSynth video and audio plugins for importing the rm streams in AviSynth?
Wilbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 18:12   #184  |  Link
karl_lillevold
Moderator
 
karl_lillevold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally posted by wing1
I am playing around with the settings in the audience file, I am using the default values, your recommended values, and my own: I did noticed that the latency startup setting is drastically increase from default to your recommendation. What exactly does this value do? Is it something similar to buffer time? I did noticed that if this value is increased, the playback seem to be sharper.
the max latency setting is named after the maximum amount of buffering time which is needed if you were to stream your content. In practical terms for offline encoding this extra buffer or bit reservoir gives the encoder more flexibility to spend more bits during high action scenes. And more bits means higher quality and sharper video.

On the other hand, with the latency time set to a small number, the encoder is forced to keep the bitrate pretty close to the average even during high action, thus limiting the quality.
__________________
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.
karl_lillevold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 18:16   #185  |  Link
karl_lillevold
Moderator
 
karl_lillevold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally posted by Wilbert
Can anyone of you make AviSynth video and audio plugins for importing the rm streams in AviSynth?
That's a great idea. Like I have posted a few times, it is possible the codec APIs will be opened up, but there is no decision yet, and I can not possibly make any promises. If this happens [codec API published], I am sure there will be people writing DS filters, VirtualDub plugins, AviSynth plugins and a lot of other really cool stuff.
__________________
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.
karl_lillevold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 19:41   #186  |  Link
kilg0r3
! - User - !
 
kilg0r3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
the max latency ... this extra buffer or bit reservoir gives the encoder more flexibility to spend more bits during high action scenes. And more bits means higher quality and sharper video.
Does this also apply to two pass encodes. If so this could be a way to get rid of undersized files.
__________________
Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent!
kilg0r3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2003, 14:57   #187  |  Link
Valky
Registered User
 
Valky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Could you take a look at the files in http://www.lillevold.com/files/jitter.zip (one RV9, one XviD) and see if you notice a difference in the amount of jitter? On my system both play back pretty smoothly.

Actually I tried this realmedia-file and noticed that it look awful at any other settings than recommended setting at performance/hardware-tab.

If the slider isn't at far right, the line starts to break. Also with MPC the line jitters and breaks at all other renderer that wmr7, but even with that, it isn't as perfect as it is with RealPlayer. So should I now always use RealPlayer with my movies? This would be shame, cause then I cant use srt-subtitles

The reason I tried this file of yours was that I encoded Merlin-dvd with your recommended settings and I used AutoRV 1.2 for that.
The movie is over 3 hours long so for the first time I had to put it on 2CD.

First thing: I wasn't really happy with the cutting. After the second part starts there is over 10 seconds black screen without the picture but the audio can still be heard and it gets synched little bit later..something wrong with the cutting in AutoRV?

Secondly: I have been pretty satisfied with the results in two other movies (LOTR-cartoon and SOUTHPARK -movie) I have encoded on 1CD but just like in this Merlin-movie, there has been some strange screen shifting from the middle of the picture from time to time. These I have noticed when watching with TV-Output using TVtool. So it is something similiar to that test-clip and it isn't as smooth as I hope.

In this Merlin there is also very skipping picture when camera is moving horizontally panning from right to left..this exist also with divx codec but would have been nice to get rid of it
This is related to the thing mentioned above I think..

Also I would like to ask if it is possible to use these rt-subtitles so that they appear transparent without that black box on top of my movie? Can this be done somehow modifying that smil-file?
Now it look pretty silly when movie doesn't cover the whole screen. It hang above the screen and subtitle-box just below that.

Also if I encode PAL DVD's with 25fps I should also always change max fps to 25 at Realmedia encoder? (Default is 30fps)


My hardware is WinXP, Geforce2, Athlon 1700XP+, Live!
I have tried with resolutions 1024, 800 and with both 16bit and 32bit. Refreshrate 60,75 and 85. DX8.1

Just wanted to add that this xvid jitter-clip doesn't play smooth at all with MPC, but with Viplayer it does..? The RM jitter-clip plays much smoother with MPC than xvid-clip..this is weird..I tried with both ffdshow and Nic's xvid decoder.
Does somebody happen to have same jitter clip encoded in Divx? This seems interesting
or then again maby not..now I dont know what player to trust anymore

Also when I changed the framerate to 25fps in xvid-clip it wasn't as bad as with 30fps on my 50hrz tv, but still jittering (and perfect with Viplayer)

Now I try with latest beta MPC..

Last edited by Valky; 25th March 2003 at 16:02.
Valky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2003, 15:51   #188  |  Link
gabest
Registered User
 
gabest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,459
The vsync detection of mpc's special rm renderer was improved in the latest test verisons. You can find it in its topic in the "players" forum. The video renderer settings on the first page doesn't affect realmedia playback. By default it uses real's own renderer in overlay if possible (ok), or without overlay (jitters). When the "special renderer" is checked, mpc renderers the video onto the screen with dx7 functions (looks also ok since v6435).
__________________
gabest.org
gabest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2003, 17:16   #189  |  Link
Dark-Cracker
Registered User
 
Dark-Cracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,195
@valky
autorv9 slpit the movie on a keyframe using rmeditor normaly no problem on the split i don't think the error come from autorv9

for the subtitle wait version 1.3 of autorv9 u will have the transparency option and a shadow option

@karl
could u try to put latency upper than 25 sec ? it will done a better quality and a better accurency for the final file size.

@gabest
could u try to add the possibility to sharp and change colors for the .rmvb file ? like in realone player

thank u
Bye.
__________________

AutoDub v1.8 : Divx3/4/5 & Xvid Video codec and .OGG/.MP3/.AC3/.WMA audio codec.
AutoRV10 v1.0 : Use RealVideo 10 Codec and support 2 Audio Streams and Subtitles.

Dark-Cracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2003, 20:37   #190  |  Link
31 Flavas
RV10 Nerd
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 247
Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
In practical terms for offline encoding this extra buffer or bit reservoir gives the encoder more flexibility to spend more bits during high action scenes. And more bits means higher quality and sharper video.
Is there any 'hack' that would allow max latency to be increased beyond 25 in RV9 producers?

It would make the file almost unstreamable (too much inital waiting), but for local playback this shouldn't matter. It did not hurt local playback in RV8, afaik...
31 Flavas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 14:12   #191  |  Link
Sirber
retired developer
 
Sirber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,978
@gabest

MPC uses 100% CPU now and don't start I don't understand why.
__________________
Detritus Software
Sirber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 17:30   #192  |  Link
karl_lillevold
Moderator
 
karl_lillevold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally posted by 31 Flavas
Is there any 'hack' that would allow max latency to be increased beyond 25 in RV9 producers?
It is not possible to increase this beyond 25 seconds, but the good news is that the buffer size is calculated based on the max bitrate for VBR encodes, and not the average bitrate. This means that if you increase the max bitrate for a VBR encode, the VBR buffer will be larger.

I have not run many experiments to verify this, but I have on my list of things to do, to investigate 2-pass VBR behavior in general, and this will be part of that work. I wrote a perl script to create spreadsheet data such that the bitrate over time can be plotted, based on the output of 'rmeditor -d', and if possible I would like to improve a few things (like how producer tends to undershoot the bitrate when part of the clip is very very easy to encode).
__________________
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.
karl_lillevold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 17:57   #193  |  Link
karl_lillevold
Moderator
 
karl_lillevold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,584
@Valky, finally a few replies for you. Sorry I have not gotten around to it sooner.

Quote:
Originally posted by Valky
[B]If the slider isn't at far right, the line starts to break. Also with MPC the line jitters and breaks at all other renderer that wmr7, but even with that, it isn't as perfect as it is with RealPlayer. So should I now always use RealPlayer with my movies? This would be shame, cause then I cant use srt-subtitles
If the line in the jitter test clips "breaks" that probably means what we call tearing, which is an indication that flip buffers are not used. These buffers are used in the most optimized renderer in such a way that we copy data to video memory to a surface that is not being displayed. Then, at some instant in time later, the buffers are flipped, thus the name, to display the content of this buffer. The "breaks" are caused by a frame being displayed in the middle of a mem copy to this frame. When MPC uses its own renderer for its great looking sub-titles, the flip buffers are not used, and you will unfortunately see tearing. However, when MPC uses the native RealVideo renderer, it should display frames the same way RealOne does

Quote:
First thing: I wasn't really happy with the cutting. After the second part starts there is over 10 seconds black screen without the picture but the audio can still be heard and it gets synched little bit later..something wrong with the cutting in AutoRV?
This is a problem with rmeditor, I believe. It will cut the video where it is being asked to cut (by AutoRV9) regardless of keyframes. Then the video frames up until the first key frames will be discarded. Worst case, this could be up to 10 seconds. I wish it was different, but I am afraid the only way to cut to key frames with rmeditor, is to use its GUI flavor.

Quote:
Secondly: I have been pretty satisfied with the results in two other movies (LOTR-cartoon and SOUTHPARK -movie) I have encoded on 1CD but just like in this Merlin-movie, there has been some strange screen shifting from the middle of the picture from time to time. These I have noticed when watching with TV-Output using TVtool. So it is something similiar to that test-clip and it isn't as smooth as I hope.
Not sure about this one...

Quote:
Also I would like to ask if it is possible to use these rt-subtitles so that they appear transparent without that black box on top of my movie? Can this be done somehow modifying that smil-file?
Now it look pretty silly when movie doesn't cover the whole screen. It hang above the screen and subtitle-box just below that.
I think you are asking about if the sub-titles can have transparent background, right? Take a look at this thread:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...rent+subtitles


Quote:
Also if I encode PAL DVD's with 25fps I should also always change max fps to 25 at Realmedia encoder? (Default is 30fps)
I don't think that really matters, producer will look at the input framerate, and if it is 25 fps, this will automatically be the maximum framerate.

Quote:
Just wanted to add that this xvid jitter-clip doesn't play smooth at all with MPC, but with Viplayer it does..? The RM jitter-clip plays much smoother with MPC than xvid-clip..this is weird..I tried with both ffdshow and Nic's xvid decoder.
Does somebody happen to have same jitter clip encoded in Divx? This seems interesting
or then again maby not..now I dont know what player to trust anymore
The amount of jitter depends on the renderer used. Both DivX and XviD would probably have the exact same amount of jitter if you use the same renderer sub-system, which for AVI files in most cases is native DirectShow. If a player uses its own renderer system, this could potentially affect the jitter. RealVideo does not use DirectShow, and is why you will sometimes see more jitter with RealVideo, something which has already been improved, but not released yet (RealOne V3).
__________________
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.
karl_lillevold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 20:05   #194  |  Link
kilg0r3
! - User - !
 
kilg0r3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,081
Hi Karl!

Thank you very much. Just wanted to say that your patience and dedication is very much appreciated.

Take Care.
__________________
Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent!
kilg0r3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 20:48   #195  |  Link
slavickas
I'm Shpongled
 
slavickas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lithuania
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold


I don't think that really matters, producer will look at the input framerate, and if it is 25 fps, this will automatically be the maximum framerate.

i have opposite question, why producer encodes at source's fps (for example 30) if in audience it is specified different (25). so it meants what producer simply is ignoring this setting (if correctly i remember 8th producer encoded at specified fps)
slavickas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 20:57   #196  |  Link
karl_lillevold
Moderator
 
karl_lillevold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally posted by slavickas
i have opposite question, why producer encodes at source's fps (for example 30) if in audience it is specified different (25). so it meants what producer simply is ignoring this setting (if correctly i remember 8th producer encoded at specified fps)
I am not exactly sure what producer8 did, or this specific example, but it is simply not possible to encode a 30 fps clip at 25 fps in a nice way. You could get to 15, 10, or 7.5 fps, by skipping frames, but not from 30 to 25. In that case you will have to use a tool like VirtualDub to modify the framerate, which has more advanced video editing features.

Other than that, maybe there is a problem, but please provide a specific example, and I will take a look to see if I need to file a bug report.
__________________
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.
karl_lillevold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 22:05   #197  |  Link
31 Flavas
RV10 Nerd
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 247
Quote:
Originally posted by Valky

Also I would like to ask if it is possible to use these rt-subtitles so that they appear transparent without that black box on top of my movie? Can this be done somehow modifying that smil-file?
Now it look pretty silly when movie doesn't cover the whole screen. It hang above the screen and subtitle-box just below that.
Although the information is cryptic and probably incomplete; I think this thread is the most useful right now. It contains basic code, transparancy code, and a link to doing borders/shadows (the link Karl posted).

I'll write a complete gide thread though, one of these days.....

Last edited by 31 Flavas; 26th March 2003 at 22:14.
31 Flavas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 23:52   #198  |  Link
Dark-Cracker
Registered User
 
Dark-Cracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,195
@karl
>It will cut the video where it is being asked to cut (by AutoRV9) regardless of keyframes.

autorv9 split the .rmvb file on the keyframe i am sure .
__________________

AutoDub v1.8 : Divx3/4/5 & Xvid Video codec and .OGG/.MP3/.AC3/.WMA audio codec.
AutoRV10 v1.0 : Use RealVideo 10 Codec and support 2 Audio Streams and Subtitles.

Dark-Cracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2003, 02:20   #199  |  Link
Sirber
retired developer
 
Sirber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,978
I made some tests with RMEditor and it don't cut at keyframe. I'm 100.01% positive. You may start with a black screen for few seconds.

J'ai fais kek tests et RMEditor coupe n'importe où. Chu sur a 100.01%. J'ai eu kek épisodes de Cowboy Bebop qui startais avec un écran noir.

P.S. This text has been modified to fit in your screen. :P
__________________
Detritus Software
Sirber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2003, 09:49   #200  |  Link
Valky
Registered User
 
Valky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally posted by 31 Flavas
Although the information is cryptic and probably incomplete; I think this thread is the most useful right now. It contains basic code, transparancy code, and a link to doing borders/shadows (the link Karl posted).

I'll write a complete gide thread though, one of these days.....
Yes..it was totally cryptic and I really tried with those post, but my final results were just the same when I started..White text at the black backround and below the movie

But I rely on dark-cracker and to his excellent AutoRv9 and I hope he/she will find a good solution. Until that I rely on Gabest excellent MPC with support to beautiful looking srt files. Thank you both.

<smil xmlns="">
<head>
<layout>
<root-layout backgroundColor="black" width="512" height="418"/>
<region id="video_region" z-index="1"/>
<region id="text_region" height="50" bottom="0" z-index="2"/>
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<par>
<video src="south.rmvb" region="video_region" regPoint="topMid" regAlign="topMid" fill="remove"/>
<textstream src="south_Subtitle.rt" region="text_region" fill="freeze"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil>
Valky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.