madFlac - new DirectShow FLAC source filter + decoder

[cbemoore]

I think I've tracked down the source of the 0:00 track length problem in WMP11.

For some reason, WMP reports the FLAC bitrate as 0 kbps. I guess WMP11 calculates the track length by dividing the file size by the bitrate, leading to a 0 (or infinite!) track length.

The reason other programs display the track length correctly is probably because they use the track length reported by the filter, instead of calculating it on the fly.

Looking at the MadFlac filter properties in GraphEdit, the filter reports the track length correctly, but it doesn't report the bitrate. Could this be the problem?

Chris

[Snowknight26]

In that case, how could some FLAC tracks be seekable whilst others can't?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by cbemoore

I think I've tracked down the source of the 0:00 track length problem in WMP11.

For some reason, WMP reports the FLAC bitrate as 0 kbps. I guess WMP11 calculates the track length by dividing the file size by the bitrate, leading to a 0 (or infinite!) track length.

The reason other programs display the track length correctly is probably because they use the track length reported by the filter, instead of calculating it on the fly.

Looking at the MadFlac filter properties in GraphEdit, the filter reports the track length correctly, but it doesn't report the bitrate. Could this be the problem?

Good catch! The problem with the bitrate is that with FLAC it's variable. But madFlac should be able to calculate an average bitrate and report that.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by frenchglen

Madshi, you must have added DTS-encoded FLAC support, or something weird's happening, because I can play it back using madflac in media player classic. which is GREAT. Or perhaps I'm using a combination of filters...quite honestly, I don't really know what I'm doing! But it's working...

Don't know why it works for you but I haven't done anything about DTS/FLAC.

[cbemoore]

Originally Posted by madshi

Good catch! The problem with the bitrate is that with FLAC it's variable. But madFlac should be able to calculate an average bitrate and report that.

Yes, the bitrate is variable between tracks. But each track should report an average bitrate calculated as size/duration.

[frenchglen]

Originally Posted by madshi

Don't know why it works for you but I haven't done anything about DTS/FLAC.

Well, obviously two filters are working at the same time, and media player classic somehow coordinates them automatically, so madflac decodes flac into wav, then whatever I have detecting dts does that and decodes the dts. Very happy, you don't have to do a thing! It also works in WMP which is amazing. Madflac must do something in the background to completely make the player think it's actually a wav file.


The other thing I wanted to ask, was that some tracks that I extract with DVD-Audio Explorer, decode and then re-encode into flac with a number of methods (DVD-Audio Explorer invoking flac.exe, or eac3to converting mlp to flac, or decoding mlp to wav then encoding into flac with dBpoweramp)...do not seem to work properly with madflac, but they do in the latest foobar which uses the latest libflac.

In MPC:

- 2.0ch 24-bit 192kHz track (tried Alan Parson's HDADs, Chicago V) - appears to play through track but silently!
- 4.0ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. Janis Joplin - Pearl bootleg) - crashes MPC upon open.
- 4.1ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. DSOTM bootleg) - crashes MPC upon open.
- 5.0ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. Frank Zappa - Quaudiophiliac) - crashes MPC upon open.

Tracks of all other common resolution combinations I've tried work fine.
To make sure it's nothing at all to do with DVDAExplorer, I made my own 192kHz 24-bit stereo files, as well as 4.0-5.0, and the flac encoded from those had exactly the same results.

[clsid]

If you reencode DTS to FLAC then it becomes FLAC and it has nothing to do with DTS anymore. If you decode FLAC you'll get uncompressed PCM audio.

[frenchglen]

Originally Posted by clsid

If you reencode DTS to FLAC then it becomes FLAC and it has nothing to do with DTS anymore. If you decode FLAC you'll get uncompressed PCM audio.

Actually, these are DTS-WAV files which I have then FLAC'd. they're already compressed with DTS, but I like FLAC because of tagging ability.
These files give noise in foobar, so they're definitely DTS-encoded files, encoded "again" in flac.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by frenchglen

The other thing I wanted to ask, was that some tracks that I extract with DVD-Audio Explorer, decode and then re-encode into flac with a number of methods (DVD-Audio Explorer invoking flac.exe, or eac3to converting mlp to flac, or decoding mlp to wav then encoding into flac with dBpoweramp)...do not seem to work properly with madflac, but they do in the latest foobar which uses the latest libflac.

In MPC:

- 2.0ch 24-bit 192kHz track (tried Alan Parson's HDADs, Chicago V) - appears to play through track but silently!
- 4.0ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. Janis Joplin - Pearl bootleg) - crashes MPC upon open.
- 4.1ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. DSOTM bootleg) - crashes MPC upon open.
- 5.0ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. Frank Zappa - Quaudiophiliac) - crashes MPC upon open.

Tracks of all other common resolution combinations I've tried work fine.
To make sure it's nothing at all to do with DVDAExplorer, I made my own 192kHz 24-bit stereo file, and the flac encoded from that had exactly the same result. (not sure how to make a 4.0 or 5.0 file, would like to know, but I'm sure it would yield same results)

A sample or two would help.

[Inventive Software]

I think DTS-WAV is a DTS file with a WAV header on it, same as DD WAV. Can't confirm though.

[clsid]

From what I found with google, that seems about right. Compatible decoders will automatically recognize that its actually DTS instead of plain WAV. Incompatible decoders will decode it as regular WAV audio and that results in static.

[tebasuna51]

Originally Posted by Inventive Software

I think DTS-WAV is a DTS file with a WAV header on it, same as DD WAV. Can't confirm though.

Yes, you can see some info in this post and related

[Thunderbolt8]

any news about that 2 flac tracks with different specs in 1 mkv file thing?

[LIGHTNING UK!]

madshi,

I've been playing around with your filter today figuring out why it didn't work with ImgBurn and I found that it's because I use WAVE_FORMAT_PCM for the wFormatTag and not WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE. I guess that's just something missing from your implementation?

The second thing I noticed is that if I rip a cd track to a wav, encode with flac.exe and then decode it with flac.exe again, the files are identical. The same cannot be said if I use your filter to do the decoding. (I'm ignoring the wave header, don't worry!)

The bulk of the file matches perfectly but the 'silence' at the start/end isn't always faithfully reproduced - it falls a little short. The problem for me is that this then causes problems for 'INDEX 0' markers within a CUE file.

Is there any chance you could look into it?

I've attached a picture of showing the comparison (in hex workshop) between the source and encoded/decoded files.

The 2nd line in the comparison shows 1 byte difference in the files. It was a random 0x02 in the madFlac decoded file amongst a load of digital silence.

The real issue here is the missing 0x4001 bytes of digital silence shown in line 4.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

any news about that 2 flac tracks with different specs in 1 mkv file thing?

Not yet.

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING UK!

I've been playing around with your filter today figuring out why it didn't work with ImgBurn and I found that it's because I use WAVE_FORMAT_PCM for the wFormatTag and not WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE. I guess that's just something missing from your implementation?

Originally I used WAVE_FORMAT_PCM. But then I noticed that playing 8 channels didn't work that way. So I looked up Microsoft's documentation and they recommend to use WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE. So I switched to that and suddenly 8 channel FLACs played fine. I guess I could probably export both WAVE_FORMAT_PCM and WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE. Of course you could also allow both formats. Maybe we should both support both types?

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING UK!

The second thing I noticed is that if I rip a cd track to a wav, encode with flac.exe and then decode it with flac.exe again, the files are identical. The same cannot be said if I use your filter to do the decoding. (I'm ignoring the wave header, don't worry!)

The bulk of the file matches perfectly but the 'silence' at the start/end isn't always faithfully reproduced - it falls a little short. The problem for me is that this then causes problems for 'INDEX 0' markers within a CUE file.

Is there any chance you could look into it?

Sure. Does the problem occur with every FLAC file? If it only occurs with some specific files, could you make a sample available for me? If the problem occurs with every FLAC file, a sample is not needed.

I won't have time to check this out until Sunday, though.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Maybe we should both support both types?

That's exactly what I've done

If connecting the source to the samplegrabber fails when I've set the media type using WAVE_FORMAT_PCM, I then try again having set it to WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE.

I haven't yet decided if I should try WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE first and then fall back to WAVE_FORMAT_PCM... hmm decisions decisions!

Sure. Does the problem occur with every FLAC file?

I've done some more tests and encoded / decoded all the tracks from a CD. The ones decoded using flac.exe came out exactly the same as the original wavs. Unfortunately not one of the madFlac decoded ones did

The all sound fine, they're just not bit for bit perfect copies of the original wav files. For most of them it's just a case of missing digital silence but some have some 0xFF and 0x00 sequences that don't match (I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about here! lol).

For research purposes, I also tried the illiminable filters. Out of the 14 tracks I decoded, only 2 matched the originals.
The DC-Bass Source v1.11 filters are currently the only ones I've found that output perfectly matching data.

If you want/need more info, please let me know.

[73ChargerFan]

Originally Posted by madshi

Good catch! The problem with the bitrate is that with FLAC it's variable. But madFlac should be able to calculate an average bitrate and report that.

My family uses Media Center 2005, and this would be a great improvement.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by cbemoore

Looking at the MadFlac filter properties in GraphEdit, the filter reports the track length correctly, but it doesn't report the bitrate. Could this be the problem?

Where did you check the bitrate in the madFlac filter properties? I tried to find the empty "bitrate" field. But I didn't find any "bitrate" field at all! I think madFlac does properly set all parameters. There is no "bitrate" field, but an "nAvgBytesPerSec" field - and that is set correctly by madFlac.

Originally Posted by frenchglen

The other thing I wanted to ask, was that some tracks that I extract with DVD-Audio Explorer, decode and then re-encode into flac with a number of methods (DVD-Audio Explorer invoking flac.exe, or eac3to converting mlp to flac, or decoding mlp to wav then encoding into flac with dBpoweramp)...do not seem to work properly with madflac, but they do in the latest foobar which uses the latest libflac.

In MPC:

- 2.0ch 24-bit 192kHz track (tried Alan Parson's HDADs, Chicago V) - appears to play through track but silently!
- 4.0ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. Janis Joplin - Pearl bootleg) - crashes MPC upon open.
- 4.1ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. DSOTM bootleg) - crashes MPC upon open.
- 5.0ch 24-bit 96kHz track (e.g. Frank Zappa - Quaudiophiliac) - crashes MPC upon open.

They all work fine for me with the latest madFlac version (don't know if there was a problem with an older version). The 192kHz track is the only exception: It doesn't play, but it also doesn't crash. The reason why it doesn't play is that the audio renderers don't seem to like 192kHz. That's not the fault of madFlac, though, of course.

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

any news about that 2 flac tracks with different specs in 1 mkv file thing?

Should finally be fixed with the latest version now.

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING UK!

That's exactly what I've done

I'm now also exporting both WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE and WAVE_FORMAT_PCM.

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING UK!

I haven't yet decided if I should try WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE first and then fall back to WAVE_FORMAT_PCM... hmm decisions decisions!

Personally, I think WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE is better because it allows to specify a channel mask. With WAVE_FORMAT_PCM you have to guess the channel order.

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING UK!

I've done some more tests and encoded / decoded all the tracks from a CD. The ones decoded using flac.exe came out exactly the same as the original wavs. Unfortunately not one of the madFlac decoded ones did

Could you please try the latest madFlac version? I've done some changes and in my (short) tests the output now seems to be bit for bit correct now.

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING UK!

The DC-Bass Source v1.11 filters are currently the only ones I've found that output perfectly matching data.

That is only true for 16bit tracks. For 24bit tracks DC-Bass cuts the lowest significant 8 bits. Which was the primary reason why I started developing madFlac in the first place...

[madshi]

madFlac v1.8 released

http://madshi.net/madFlac.rar

* added support for WAVE_FORMAT_PCM
* changed standalone file decoding a bit to (hopefully) improve bit for bit correctness
* fixed handling of multiple FLAC tracks with different parameters in a container

[Thunderbolt8]

thanks very much!