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2nd September 2013, 21:34 | #20001 | Link | |
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my question still remains.. assuming madvr is making the 16-235 to 0-255 luma expansion/conversion,should i be able to get the BTB and WTW information on my display? according to this http://sunmaiblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/calibrate-htpc-for-optimal-video-output/ ""1. Luma resampling – Why WTW and BTB is important? Luma resampling refers to expanding video level (16-235) to PC level (0-255), and as we can easily see that the procedure produces fractional numbers which even HDMI 1.4 can not carry. In order to send luma through HDMI, fractional numbers are rounded to integers. Obviously there are several problems with such algorithm: 1) BTB and WTW is cut off after luma is expanded. 2) Banding is introduced (as the screenshot below shows). See the above example, the transition from 19-20 is mapped to 3-5. To reduce banding, we have to use a process called “dithering” which generates artificial pixels with luma 4 in between areas where luma is 3 and 5 in our example. Dithering is good in a way it reduces banding, but bad in a way it introduces artificial information which doesn’t exist in the original video. 3)Some graphics card later convert 0-255 back to 16-235 when using HDMI output which potentially causes even more information lost. The luma information outside video range (0-16 referred to as BTB and 235-255 referred to as WTW) are important though we don’t normally see them in a movie. IMO they provide the following values: It gives us the baseline when we calibration the brightness and contrast of our display. It shows that the video luma is not cut off/expanded along the video pipeline. Some movies have contents with luma value above 235, and as a result it’s recommended to reserve white up to 240 in order to see them. Finally my suggestions are: Avoid luma expansion/compression if possible. It’s perfect that our HTPC outputs 0-255 without expanding luma and our display cuts BTB and WTW. If luma conversion cannot be avoided (most cases), make sure that dithering is enabled to reduce banding. We can use FFDshow with dithering enabled and HQ RGB conversion or MadVR to achieve this."" Last edited by soulkeeper; 2nd September 2013 at 22:01. |
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3rd September 2013, 02:07 | #20002 | Link | |
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Last edited by jkauff; 3rd September 2013 at 02:14. |
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3rd September 2013, 08:06 | #20005 | Link | |
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Converting YUV to RGB already produces fractional numbers, expanding 16-235 to 0-255 at the same time doesn't make it any worse, in fact it could potentially even make it better since the destination range is slightly larger. Output of 0-255 is the best setup with madVR, if your TV supports it.
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3rd September 2013, 14:10 | #20006 | Link |
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@soulkeeper
if your display only supports 16-235 you can set your amd to unlimited and put madvr to 16-235. in this case the tv gets 0-255 but cut it and everything is fine it will mostlikely change it to 0-255 it self after this... |
3rd September 2013, 15:08 | #20007 | Link |
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Quick question: I have 10-bit hi444pp video file:
Code:
Video ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High 4:4:4 Predictive@L4.0 Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC Duration : 37s 246ms Width : 1 280 pixels Height : 720 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 23.976 fps Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4 Bit depth : 10 bits Scan type : Progressive Writing library : x264 core 125 r0+2877 3a754e7 Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=esa / subme=11 / psy=1 / fade_compensate=0.00 / psy_rd=0.60:0.10 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=3 / threads=3 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / fgo=0 / bframes=6 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=14.0000 / qcomp=0.80 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=81 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=3:1.00 Default : Yes Forced : No Matrix coefficients : BT.709 Is this correct? Shouldn't output be 10-bit? |
3rd September 2013, 15:27 | #20008 | Link |
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madVR only supports 8-bit outputs. I'm not sure that anything supports 10-bit out other than professional applications running on workstation cards. (Quadro/FirePro)
AMD cards use 10-bit LUTs and may send a 10-bit signal to your display, but it's still coming from an 8-bit input. |
3rd September 2013, 15:55 | #20010 | Link |
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"RGB32, 8 bit, RGB" on your screenshot is not madVR output, it's madVR input. That means that decoder performs such conversion and it's not the best way.
Check that 10-bit 4:4:4 colorspaces are checked in LAV decoder settings. |
3rd September 2013, 16:23 | #20011 | Link |
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Sounds like you are using xy-vsfilter, which doesn't support 4:4:4 10-bit.
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4th September 2013, 12:31 | #20013 | Link | |
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Now that you mention it, I'll try with other players and report back what happens. edit - I also get an error message from kmplayer : madVR reports: creating Direct3D device failed (80070057) No similar problem with the VMR9 renderer for example. Last edited by vulture_g7; 4th September 2013 at 17:10. |
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4th September 2013, 19:55 | #20014 | Link |
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I'm using MPC-HC and madVR to play movies on my 133" screen. I'm seeing some very faint border issues inside the picture frame, it seems like there's some kind of faint inner frame just inside the madVR window, it seems to start exactly two pixels from the bottom of the screen where there's a distinct line/border (haven't verified the pixel count at the other side borders). When viewed from a far it seems like there's slight bending/blurring of the picture frames inside the actual frames. This happens with different aspect ratios and I can't see how my projector would cause this.
Is it possible some madVR processing causes the issue, so that the pixels close to the borders of the image aren't processed the same way as the others? I got some images but I had trouble getting my camera focused so they're blurry, can try to post them or better images if needed. |
4th September 2013, 21:22 | #20015 | Link | |
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4th September 2013, 21:51 | #20016 | Link |
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guys i dont know what im doing wrong. i followed this guide: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80253.0
i have a panasonic G20 and i set the display mode on madvr to 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p59 and 1080p60 (my tv support all) as soon i play movie tv change the refresh rate but i have huge drop frames on madvr ( ctrl + J ). my gpu is a gt630m and only 50% load. if i remove all display modes from madvr, movies play without any frame drop. i really want to see how smooth a movie will be at 1080p24 but everytime i try it i have huge drop frames, so i still see movies at 1080p60. do i need enable anything special on madvr to enable 1080p23/24 withou huge drop frames? btw my panasonic have some 24p option that i can enable but that thing is horrible, nothing smooth so i really want see how good is madvr 1080p24. thanks in advance edit: forget, already fixed it Last edited by psousa; 4th September 2013 at 23:54. |
5th September 2013, 03:03 | #20017 | Link | |
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5th September 2013, 21:49 | #20019 | Link |
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Couldnt find the answer via google so heres the question. When smooth motion is activated i get the smoothed video, its better than anything i tried and I tried a few methods. Motion is constant, not like in all others skippy. But what botters me is how the picture is i dont know.. doubled? U can see it very clearly on the edges of objects, and im not talking about 24/25/30 frame doubling which is normal, i get that stuff. I see it even on true 60 fps video. Theres just that little afterimage, very clear ghosting. I tried to use different upscalers and all the other setting that have impact on picture in madvr but with no luck. Any ideas, anyone has seen what im talking about? I took some printscreens of my 60fps recorded blur test, those are when 'SM' is on and off of course.
Last edited by uQuad; 5th September 2013 at 21:51. |
5th September 2013, 23:37 | #20020 | Link |
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I understand that is how smooth motion works.
Each frame is displayed for the same amount of time. If it needs to be displayed for 41.67 ms (24 fps) but using screen refreshes at 16.67 ms (60 fps) it displays the frame for two refreshes and blended into the next frame at 50%. This is "synced" to the refresh rate so, given that the refresh rate is never exactly 60 Hz and video is 24/1001 fps, the pattern of blends isn't actually 100%, 100%, 50% but more like 9.7%, 100%, 100%, 40.55% and continuously changing. This generates lots of blended frames but given how humans see we only notice it as a slight blurring of the image, or a slight reduction in "sharpness", and much preferred to judder in my opinion. Edit: Oh and the partial %'s are totally made up by me to illustrate the example. I have no idea what percentages madshi is actually using, it might be more complex than my simple 50% time = 50% blend. Last edited by Asmodian; 5th September 2013 at 23:40. |
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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