RealVideo 9 Information Thread Discussion

[karl_lillevold]

yes, those big jumps are not good for smooth video playback since we rely on the hardware timer for accurate time measurements. On my Pentium systems the 'tick' test has always provided relatively smooth numbers. Were you doing anything CPU intensive while you ran the tick.exe test program?

example from my system:

140515109	16	140513183	7	140513183	7	140513183	7
140515109	0	140513191	8	140513191	8	140513191	8
140515125	16	140513199	8	140513199	8	140513199	8
140515125	0	140513207	8	140513207	8	140513207	8
140515140	15	140513215	8	140513215	8	140513215	8
140515140	0	140513222	7	140513222	7	140513222	7
140515156	16	140513230	8	140513230	8	140513230	8
140515156	0	140513238	8	140513238	8	140513238	8
140515171	15	140513246	8	140513246	8	140513246	8
140515171	0	140513254	8	140513254	8	140513254	8
140515187	16	140513262	8	140513262	8	140513262	8
140515187	0	140513269	7	140513269	7	140513269	7
140515203	16	140513277	8	140513277	8	140513277	8
140515203	0	140513285	8	140513285	8	140513285	8
140515218	15	140513293	8	140513293	8	140513293	8
140515218	0	140513301	8	140513301	8	140513301	8
140515234	16	140513308	7	140513308	7	140513308	7
140515234	0	140513316	8	140513316	8	140513316	8

[bilu]

AcroTray.exe		1752	C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 5.0\Distillr\AcroTray.exe
flashget.exe		1928	C:\Program Files\FlashGet\flashget.exe
iexplore.exe		3508	C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
avpcc.exe		1456	C:\Program Files\Kaspersky Lab\Kaspersky Anti-Virus Personal Pro\avpcc.exe
avpcc.exe		1704	C:\Program Files\Kaspersky Lab\Kaspersky Anti-Virus Personal Pro\avpcc.exe
avpm.exe		2812	C:\Program Files\Kaspersky Lab\Kaspersky Anti-Virus Personal Pro\avpm.exe
persfw.exe		1736	C:\Program Files\Kerio\Personal Firewall\persfw.exe
PrcView.exe		3652	C:\Program Files\Process Viewer\PrcView.exe
sgbhp.exe		2032	C:\Program Files\SpywareGuard\sgbhp.exe
sgmain.exe		1980	C:\Program Files\SpywareGuard\sgmain.exe
Explorer.EXE		1292	C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
alg.exe			1436	C:\WINDOWS\System32\alg.exe
csrss.exe		464	C:\WINDOWS\system32\csrss.exe
CTHELPER.EXE		1532	C:\WINDOWS\System32\CTHELPER.EXE
lsass.exe		544	C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
mmc.exe			928	C:\WINDOWS\system32\mmc.exe
nvsvc32.exe		1596	C:\WINDOWS\System32\nvsvc32.exe
services.exe		532	C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
smss.exe		408	C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
spoolsv.exe		1000	C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
svchost.exe		720	C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
svchost.exe		764	C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
svchost.exe		880	C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
svchost.exe		912	C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
svchost.exe		1836	C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
winlogon.exe		488	C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
MozillaFirebird.exe	900	D:\mozilla\MozillaFirebird\MozillaFirebird.exe
thunderbird.exe		2496	D:\mozilla\thunderbird\thunderbird.exe

CT Helper is from Creative
nvsvc32.exe is "NVIDIA Driver Helper Service"
Kerio Personal Firewall
Kaspersky Antivirus Monitor
PrcView.exe is Norton Utilities Process Viewer, wasn't running then, but it's useful to generate this kind of reports

I'll try disabling those items for moments to see what happens in tick.


Bilu

[bilu]

I've sent you a lot of tick files, but I wasn't able to find the problem Maybe it's hardware related...


Tick files:

a_noKAV.txt - no Antivirus Monitor
b_noNV.txt - No NVidia service
c_noHQNV.txt - Changed from Best Quality to Best Performance in NVidia Control Panel
d_noCT.txt - No Creative Helper
e_noMOZ.txt - Closed Mozilla and other running programs listed in the post
f_noSG.txt - Disable Spyware Guard
g_noKAV2.txt - no Antivirus Control Panel
h_noPFSG2.txt - no Firewall, killed Spyware Guards process
i_stdwin.txt - only Windows process running
j_nonet.txt - disabled networking, since I use Connection Sharing
k_safe1.txt - Safe Mode
l_safe2.txt - another tick in Safe Mode
m_bios.txt - after changing BIOS setting, ran in Safe Mode


Bios Settings changed:
Processor In Order Queue Depth from 4 to 1
L2 Cache ECC disabled
SDRAM Cycle Time Tras/Trc 7/9 to 5/7
RAS-to-CAS Delay 3 to 2
RAS Precharge Time 3 to 2
CPU Latency Timer Disabled
PCI Delayed Transaction was already disabled


Best regards,
Bruno

[bilu]

I'm using HPG for the first time.

Unique features I love in HPG:
- job and audience generators;
- integrated Dropfilter and the possibility to use RV9 prefilters ( although I'm not using them);
- Vorbis support;

Unique features I love in AutoRV9:
- compressibility test;
- subtitle integration (could be better);
- better audio integration than HPG;

My dream: have a nice variable framerate filtering so I can auto-IVTC without worrying about hybrid movies and/or speed animes, and then integrate a tool with Robot4Rip that grabs the AC3 and D2V file,creates an RV9 job and starts encoding. This tool could burn the raw Vobsub subs or place them in the same directory, so that RV9 could be played nicely with external subtitles I didn't even OCRed. I was close once with my R4R_ENC batch tool, except for auto-IVTC

That is my dream of laziness: an encode by clicking Start


Bilu

[Sirber]

If you find something about hibrid movies, I'll be glad to add it to Surreal UI

[bilu]

@Sirber

Take a look at this interesting thread:

@VFW/DShow experts: VFR in Avisynth could be good news for Matroska
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63541


@Karl
What could be done both in RV9 and Avisynth to increase compressibility to fit a certain size? I almost get the impression that whatever I do I'll lose quality so I'd better stick to EHQ=80, fixed vbrquality value, and split for CDs

If bitrate is not good enough for RV9, it washes the picture as needed.
Filtering to increase compressibility in RV9 would do the same I think, so there's no need to do it twice

I have to try C3D, Deen and Undot with RV9 to see if it's worth the compressibility gain and how does it look. Also I've heard that resizing doesn't help that much.


Bilu

[karl_lillevold]

@bilu: time permitting, we are planning to come out with 2-pass VBR improvements to the encoder. We also have another small enhancement to both encoder and decoder that will be out shortly.

C3D works very well for RV9. Without having used the compressibility measurements too much, I am not sure how much I would trust them Do not believe everything you hear, resizing works very well to increase compressibility. Like I have mentioned a few times, with EHQ=80 I resize such that I get 0.13 bits/pixel or higher. For grainy, noisy, lots of action material, or very low rez (w=400 or below), I go higher 0.18-0.20 bits/pixel.

Hope this helps.

[bilu]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
@bilu: time permitting, we are planning to come with 2-pass VBR improvements to the encoder. We also have another small enhancement to both encoder and decoder that will be out shortly.

I wasn't complaining, it's just that resizing would be my best option since movies already look so clean

I was thinking that filters that help compressibility under MPEG-4 wouldn't necessarily help in RV9, but maybe it's time for me to try.

I know that compressibility tests on AutoRV9 take vbrquality 75 as reference like a first-pass. Is quality decreasing linear, i.e. if you decrease from quality 75 to quality 50 will it decrease mostly the same percentage in size in every movie?


Bilu

[karl_lillevold]

I was running some StackVertical comparisons with two DirectShowSource (rmvb) videos, and suddenly Avisynth started crashing with an unknown exception. So I simplified my script to display just one video, still no luck, unknown exception 4 out of 5 times, both in mplayerc and VirtualDub. Finally I realized when I re-installed Avisynth late last week, and I said 'yes' to install ffvfw. I did not notice any immediate problems at that time. So then I uninstalled ffvfw, and now everything is working again. Maybe I could have figured out how to make it work, perhaps by disabling ffvfw 'raw' video, or installed a newer version, but since I don't really need it, this was quicker. So, just something to keep in mind, if Avisynth starts crashing while using DirectShowSource, Gabest's RealMediaSplitter, and rmvb files.

[Rrrough]

After experimenting with RV9 on a Windows box I'm quite impressed by the quality. Especially with EHQ + new 2-pass. Unfortunately, transcoding to RV9 seems to be a "Windows-only" solution, because on a Linux box, AFAIK it's only possible to transcode an MPEG2-stream into raw avi and feed that into Helix producer for Linux. A nicer solution would be an export module for transcode.
Also 5.1 RealAudio sounds great, but transcoding from AC3 under Linux could be easier with an liba52 -interface for Helix Producer, resp. a transcode-export-module
Are there any plans for enhancing Producer on the linux platform ?
Anyway, the "support" for this codec within this forum is great !

cheers

[karl_lillevold]

@Rrrough: thanks! and yes, you are right about "Windows-only"

since the RV9 encoder runs as fast on Linux as on Windows, it is really unfortunate Producer on Linux (and OS X) supports only uncompressed AVI (and MOV) files and the filesize even has to be less than 2GB. We would really like to see this improve, for instance in the direction of your suggestions, but the Producer team is fully booked with other tasks in the foreseeable future.

I have already mentioned this before: since most of the Helix system is open source, it would be relatively easy for a skilled programmer with Linux experience, to work on these issues, and contribute the improvements back to the Helix Community. I would be more than happy to help someone get started, with pointers on where to start and the right contacts. Just let me know.

[Rrrough]

hey karl, thanx for your answer. too bad that my favorite OS isn't really supported (yet), so I've to stick with a seperate Windows-partition a bit longer, but the codec's quality is definetly worth it.

tusen takk og ha det bra (IIRC )

[karl_lillevold]

In Producer 9.2 Milestone 8 changes to encodingComplexity were made (again).. So now only 'low', 'medium' and 'high' work. 'very-high' does not work. The old codec specific registry keys and codecProperties "encoderComplexity" in the audience file, with 85 as the complexity, still work though.

More changes are expected, so for now, there is no need to upgrade. Just use Milestone 7 with my VBR fix.

EDIT: and even 'high' and 'medium' and 'low' have been mapped differently, so the only working methods to set encoding complexity are the registry and codecProperties.

[phrentec]

Is there anyway to convert bink videos(.bik) into realvideo. I have tried to use the wrpr codec to frameserve from the radvideo to an avi but it seems to crash before it can be frameserved. I know mediaplayerclassic can play bink videos(even in the .exe form) through using the binkw32.dll so is it then possible to open bink videos with helixproducer through avisynth (this may belong in the avisynth forums i guess) via the binkw32.dll.

I am just looking for a way to convert bink videos to realvideo without having to use a lossless codec in the process.

[iwod]

It seems that M8 has alot of changes and somewhere in that releasenote suggested that EHQ is now not part of RV9 and is put into a new Codec.

Is that Rv10??

[Sirber]

can you paste the text here?

[RadicalEd]

RealVideo EHQ/Encoding Complexity Changes
The number of levels available for encoding complexity was reduced from 5 (very-high, high, normal, fast, vary-fast) to 3 (high, medium and low) for several reasons:

Only some of the 5 options were triggering unique behavior in most of the codecs that supported the encodingComplexity property. Thus, users might change the setting from fast to very-fast with no change in behavior. This is not a very good user experience.
The EHQ technology added to RealVideo 9 was separated out into a new codec - itself with 3 ranges. The new codec is yet complete but RealVideo 9 is still available in this build. RealVideo 9 no longer includes the EHQ technology so there is no method in Milestone 8 to exercise EHQ. Please use Milestone 7 if you wish to encode with RealVideo EHQ.

From the M8 release notes


No more rv9 EHQ, that is a bit disturbing :\

[karl_lillevold]

No more rv9 EHQ, that is a bit disturbing

it is still there and will never go away , it is available via codecProperties or registry settings, but unless you want to use those, stick with Milestone 7 + my VBR improvement.

[Sirber]

Why does the compagny want to remove EHQ? It's like going back to the dinosaur age

[iwod]

Originally posted by Sirber
Why does the compagny want to remove EHQ? It's like going back to the dinosaur age

Simply Becoz RV9 is total crap.....

And So one day they break the bitstream, uncover somthing with Fast motion. A New PP build out of Codec. Better EHQ with even higher EHQ setting. Better VBR, other general improvement..... etc.... little by little.......

We begin to see a new age..... No we are not in Diniousor age....... we went to Mars......

Welcome to RV10