delaycut - ac3/eac3/dts/mpa/wav delay+cut tool: v1.4.3.7

Originally Posted by phate89

Itry this params in the program
cut file:
start 10000 ms
end 40000 ms
delay (original length checked)
start msec 10000 ms

executed
i get exactly the first 30 seconds of the ac3 file... but what i want is 10 silence seconds and then audio from 10 to 40 seconds
maybe i'm doing something wrong

Don't click "original length" in that case then. When you check that option it sets the end delay to the equivalent of your start delay so that length isn't changed. In that example you're cutting out a 30 second segment and it is maintaining that 30 second length since that's what you told it to do.

The math that happens so you understand is that you have a start delay of 10s, an end delay of 10s a start cut of 10s and a end cut of 40s. So when calculating the start frame the code first calculates the net start cut value which is startDelay - startCut so in your case 0s becomes the starting value. When calculating the end frame, the end cut value is then calculated by doing -(delayEnd) + endCut which gives you 30s. Hence you get a 30s clip.

Originally Posted by phate89

btw i found an ac3 audio track that make crash delaycut from command line and it don't do anything from gui... EAC3to handles it without problems..

Please upload it somewhere where I can get it and I'll look into it.

[phate89]

Originally Posted by amtm

Don't click "original length" in that case then. When you check that option it sets the end delay to the equivalent of your start delay so that length isn't changed. In that example you're cutting out a 30 second segment and it is maintaining that 30 second length since that's what you told it to do.

The math that happens so you understand is that you have a start delay of 10s, an end delay of 10s a start cut of 10s and a end cut of 40s. So when calculating the start frame the code first calculates the net start cut value which is startDelay - startCut so in your case 0s becomes the starting value. When calculating the end frame, the end cut value is then calculated by doing -(delayEnd) + endCut which gives you 30s. Hence you get a 30s clip.



Please upload it somewhere where I can get it and I'll look into it.

I tried without check that. now i get a 40 seconds track... but the start is still the audio i want to cut and not 10 seconds silence...following your formula it will never create the silence if the delay is smaller or equal than the start size...
That formula is based from the assumption that or you add a delay or you do a start cut..
but in a lot of occasions is very useful to do both

example:
in this case i want 10 seconds of silence (delay) and then the second from 10 to 40... for a total of 40 seconds..
with this method it decrease the start point with the delay..but the start point it isn't 0 .. so 10s-10 s=0s and it takes from the start the existing audio....
about the track tomorrow i will upload it to you
about dcaenc.. you think you will be able to use it in the tool? if you don't there's still the option to support like eac3to the surcode dts encode (throug command line i guess)... not free.. not cheap but better than nothing

[tebasuna51]

Originally Posted by amtm

The math that happens so you understand is that you have a start delay of 10s, an end delay of 10s a start cut of 10s and a end cut of 40s. So when calculating the start frame the code first calculates the net start cut value which is startDelay - startCut so in your case 0s becomes the starting value. When calculating the end frame, the end cut value is then calculated by doing -(delayEnd) + endCut which gives you 30s. Hence you get a 30s clip.

If this is the required behaviour please remove the 'Original Length' check from the Delay box, and put it between 'Cutting' and 'Delay' boxes with a name like 'Preserve Length'

Inside the 'Delay' box seems don't affect to 'Cut' length and the original file length isn't preserved.

Originally Posted by phate89

in this case i want 10 seconds of silence (delay) and then the second from 10 to 40... for a total of 40 seconds...

All situations can't be solved now without 2 DelayCut pass.
With old/actual DelayCut behaviour you need:

1) Cut your file (10000, 30000)
2) Delay the cut with 10000

[phate89]

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

All situations can't be solved now without 2 DelayCut pass.
With old/actual DelayCut behaviour you need:

1) Cut your file (10000, 30000)
2) Delay the cut with 10000

Sure i know but it's not how it is supposed to work.. i ask the guy to add a delay and cut at the same time, this is allowed from the gui but it's not what i get..
i think it should be fixed..

So what you want is not a "delay" option but an additional "insert silence" option, correct? This is something we talked about earlier and I will add, but the behavior that happens when you hit "original length" was not changed by me at all. It's the way it has always worked. Other than modifying some data types to get the code to compile in Qt the behavior internal code that calculates target info and does the delaying has not been modified.

Originally Posted by phate89

about dcaenc.. you think you will be able to use it in the tool? if you don't there's still the option to support like eac3to the surcode dts encode (throug command line i guess)... not free.. not cheap but better than nothing

I would like to but since I'm in the US it will be tricky in getting it pulled down with the executable without running afoul of patent law. The most likely scenario is to dynamically link it and have it pulled down from some other source that I don't host because I'm not going to get myself into legal issues.

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

If this is the required behaviour please remove the 'Original Length' check from the Delay box, and put it between 'Cutting' and 'Delay' boxes with a name like 'Preserve Length'

Inside the 'Delay' box seems don't affect to 'Cut' length and the original file length isn't preserved.

That sounds like a good idea to change the name of the option since it does seem to be slightly confusing on what it's doing. Also it's not required that that's what happens, but that's just the way jsoto wrote the code to work.

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

All situations can't be solved now without 2 DelayCut pass.
With old/actual DelayCut behaviour you need:

1) Cut your file (10000, 30000)
2) Delay the cut with 10000

It will be solved by the addition of an "insert silence" feature. Right now, though, I'm trying to nail down if any other bugs exist before I start on the new features.

So outside of the rounding issue that I've locally fixed, the fixcrc cli issue of Selur and phate's issue with a file are there any other bug reports? I will get to all these feature change requests, etc, but I want to make sure all findable bugs are squashed before I start changing more things.

So thinking about this more, what you want phate is for any delay value to be treated as an insert silence? Right now what happens is that if your start frame after all the math is done when calculating the target info is negative it will insert the delay as silence. The problem you see, though, is when you are also cutting within the file and you specify a delay which you expect it to first cut the file then add a delay which should be silence as well, correct? Whereas the longstanding behavior has just been to do the math I showed above which is the startDelay - startCut then it calculates where this is in ac3 frames and if it's not a negative you end up with the audio that precedes your cut point not silence. So would everyone agree with changing the behavior that when you specify a cut and delay value that it does the "cut file first then insert silence at the beginning or end" behavior?

[Selur]

personally I prefer the two pass step, that is necessary atm.
In the GUI it is easy to force this with two radio buttons that let you change values in the cutting OR the delay groupbox and when you hit PROCESS only the values in the enabled groupbox will be used,..

Cu Selur

Originally Posted by Selur

personally I prefer the two pass step, that is necessary atm.
In the GUI it is easy to force this with two radio buttons that let you change values in the cutting OR the delay groupbox and when you hit PROCESS only the values in the enabled groupbox will be used,..

Cu Selur

Okay, but why is it any better to have to do two processes of

1) Apply cut
2) Apply delay

when the internal code can just be changed to do this all in one pass or transparent to the user as internally two passes? I guess my question is, does anyone actually want the behavior of both a cut and delay to be applied to not insert silence as the delay but instead just have it shift the start and end cut values by the delay values which it currently does? To cut down on unnecessary steps it seems that if you want the 2nd behavior instead of the first that you should just apply a smaller cut value rather than making the 1st case, which I could see more people wanting, to be more complicated than it needs to be.

[phate89]

sent via mp

[Selur]

I'll probably always do it two passes to be sure that I know what is happening.
-> so for me both behaviors are fine, as long as they are documented somehow (maybe a few tooltips?)

[phate89]

Originally Posted by amtm

So outside of the rounding issue that I've locally fixed, the fixcrc cli issue of Selur and phate's issue with a file are there any other bug reports? I will get to all these feature change requests, etc, but I want to make sure all findable bugs are squashed before I start changing more things.

i sent a mu link with first 30 secs of the ac3 splitted with eac3to.. thanks for looking at it..

Originally Posted by amtm

I would like to but since I'm in the US it will be tricky in getting it pulled down with the executable without running afoul of patent law. The most likely scenario is to dynamically link it and have it pulled down from some other source that I don't host because I'm not going to get myself into legal issues.

could be a good solution... maybe with dcaenc of this board that LoRd_MuldeR is improving...

Originally Posted by amtm

So thinking about this more, what you want phate is for any delay value to be treated as an insert silence? Right now what happens is that if your start frame after all the math is done when calculating the target info is negative it will insert the delay as silence. The problem you see, though, is when you are also cutting within the file and you specify a delay which you expect it to first cut the file then add a delay which should be silence as well, correct? Whereas the longstanding behavior has just been to do the math I showed above which is the startDelay - startCut then it calculates where this is in ac3 frames and if it's not a negative you end up with the audio that precedes your cut point not silence. So would everyone agree with changing the behavior that when you specify a cut and delay value that it does the "cut file first then insert silence at the beginning or end" behavior?

I think it's not a new feature, it's not insert silence into track... it's how delay should work.. eac3to and all other tools if you ask them to add delay they add silence.. everywhere delay is silence..
Like it is implemented now what is the purpose? you can get the same exact behaviour easily substracting the delay to the start cut point.. there are 2 methods to do the same thing. and to do a silenced delay there's no way in one pass.. you have to do it twice..

Originally Posted by Selur

I'll probably always do it two passes to be sure that I know what is happening.
-> so for me both behaviors are fine, as long as they are documented somehow (maybe a few tooltips?)

Yes, I can update the documentation and provide tooltips. Unless someone has a compelling case to the contrary, I'm going to change the behavior as apply cut then insert delay as silence since this seems more logical to me and cuts down on needing extra steps.

Originally Posted by phate89

i sent a mu link with first 30 secs of the ac3 splitted with eac3to.. thanks for looking at it..

I see that. Thanks a lot!

Originally Posted by phate89

could be a good solution... maybe with dcaenc of this board that LoRd_MuldeR is improving...

True. It's just going to be tricky on working out how to pull it down without it being to instrusive and annoying to do so.

Originally Posted by phate89

I think it's not a new feature, it's not insert silence into track... it's how delay should work.. eac3to and all other tools if you ask them to add delay they add silence.. everywhere delay is silence..
Like it is implemented now what is the purpose? you can get the same exact behaviour easily substracting the delay to the start cut point.. there are 2 methods to do the same thing. and to do a silenced delay there's no way in one pass.. you have to do it twice..

I totally agree. The current behavior is somewhat illogical since as you and I both state, you should just increase or decrease your cut values rather than using the delay to do this. I agree it's not really a "new feature", my statement was really more of I want to fix any crashing/hanging issues or bugs related to any features I have introduced before changing anything else as I see these as more serious than changing this behavior. But rest assured it will be fixed right after I figure out your and Selur's issues.

[phate89]

Originally Posted by amtm

True. It's just going to be tricky on working out how to pull it down without it being to instrusive and annoying to do so.

i'm not a perfect method but a very basic way you can do it is through command line.. if there's the dcaenc executable in the same folder or in the system environment paths it uses dcaenc.. otherwise it uses the old method..
this is how i used delaycut and eac3to to do my lossless editing tool and where my programming skills finishes :P

Originally Posted by phate89

i'm not a perfect method but a very basic way you can do it is through command line.. if there's the dcaenc executable in the same folder or in the system environment paths it uses dcaenc.. otherwise it uses the old method..
this is how i used delaycut and eac3to to do my lossless editing tool and where my programming skills finishes :P

Yeah, I'm thinking more of making sure people know to pull down the executable. I can put something in the README but not everyone is going to look at that. The other way would be to have it check and pop up a dialog that it needs to retrieve the file and downloads it at that point with an option to disable the dialog if you don't want to see it again if you check no so it's not a constant nag screen. I guess I can go with the 2nd idea for now.

[phate89]

Originally Posted by amtm

Yeah, I'm thinking more of making sure people know to pull down the executable. I can put something in the README but not everyone is going to look at that. The other way would be to have it check and pop up a dialog that it needs to retrieve the file and downloads it at that point with an option to disable the dialog if you don't want to see it again if you check no so it's not a constant nag screen. I guess I can go with the 2nd idea for now.

or simply in log you put a WARNING in red telling where they can get the file and where they have to put it...

Originally Posted by phate89

btw i found an ac3 audio track that make crash delaycut from command line and it don't do anything from gui... EAC3to handles it without problems..

Were you using any specific switches from the CLI? And by "it don't do anything from gui" what does that mean? Having just taken a look at it, I can load it in the GUI and apply delays and cuts and it processes just fine. Same via CLI. Any extra information to help reproduce your crash would be helpful.

[tebasuna51]

Originally Posted by phate89

...
about dcaenc.. you think you will be able to use it in the tool? if you don't there's still the option to support like eac3to the surcode dts encode (throug command line i guess)... not free.. not cheap but better than nothing

dcaenc can't be used to insert silences in dts's created by Surcode or DTS-HD Master Audio Suite because:

The frame-length created by dcaenc for, 5.1 48 KHz 1536, is 2012 (actual bitrate 1509)
The frame-length created by Surcode/Suite for, 5.1 48 KHz 1536, is 2013 (actual bitrate 1509.75)

The frame-length created by dcaenc for, 5.1 48 KHz 768, is 1008 (actual bitrate 756)
The frame-length created by Surcode/Suite for, 5.1 48 KHz 768, is 1006 (actual bitrate 754.5)

ArcSoft decoder crash when found a frame with different length than first frame (also NicDtsSource crash, libav work without problems).

DelayCut can delay dts's created by Surcode/Suite, but not with dts's created by dcaenc.

[phate89]

Originally Posted by amtm

Were you using any specific switches from the CLI? And by "it don't do anything from gui" what does that mean? Having just taken a look at it, I can load it in the GUI and apply delays and cuts and it processes just fine. Same via CLI. Any extra information to help reproduce your crash would be helpful.

I try every kind of switch.. It never works.. Everytime i get delaycut.exe stop working from CLI..With the gui even if i don't set anything and i hit process it returns finished with errors (and i get a 0 kbps file)... All other tracks were fine.. I have the same problem with the old 1.3.0