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Old 31st May 2020, 13:59   #59661  |  Link
Klaus1189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
coilwhine ... is misunderstood with a different problem ...
What problem is that?
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Old 31st May 2020, 14:14   #59662  |  Link
huhn
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noise from speaker under load.
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Old 31st May 2020, 14:30   #59663  |  Link
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That should be easy to determine, press mute on remote of AVR. If the whine sound is still there, it is coilwhine, right? Do you know what is causing this noise from speaker under load, I think there was something here in the past already, but I can't really remember.
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Old 31st May 2020, 16:02   #59664  |  Link
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Coil whine unfortunately can be ALOT of things rolled into one.

It could be a coil/ capacitor/ chock/ resistor/ inductor, etc etc, anything that creates friction(resistance) for electricity can exhibit the piezoelectric effect.

Plugging in different components _TOGETHER_ often changes the situation of how the electricity drains through the device, so it can cause whine that wasn't there if those components were seperate.

This is primarily why OPTICAL is still the cleanest option for PC sound output as it's a form of galvanic isolation.

GPUs/CPUs are resistors, therefore, given the right circumstances, they screech as well.
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Old 31st May 2020, 22:16   #59665  |  Link
BetA13
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Thank you for all the informative Answers.

@tp4tissue

yes, i did recently change my Hardware.. (upgraded)


@Asmodian

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madVR is more likely to cause coil whine. It is a very spiky load, once the queues are full the GPU renders one frame and then idles until it needs to render the next frame. At a 70% load with 24 fps video this means the GPU is using a lot of power for 29 ms then very little power for 13 ms, and repeat forever.
This!!! is exactly what i saw in my GPU stats(afterburner) Its only happening when teh GPU is running with Full Clock speeds, as soonest it clocks down the noise is gone. But its the Speed of the VRAM´s from what i could found out in my testings, GPU clocks do not matter so much in my Case. As soonest the VRAM clocks down, the noise is gone... So its the buffering of teh prerendered frames? Or something like that... Dont know if i sayd that right...

---

Also, i know what Coil WHine is and its coming form the GPU.. NOT the speakers.
Like i sayd, when downclocking the Card, the Coil whine is allmost gone and cant be heard under 40cm...

---

i know what you guys mean about the speakers. i checked them and they are all grounded and do not touch metal with metal, etc etc..
Its only when the GPU is used.. And Coil whine is still present when i unpluged my sound system completly. (also in Hardware Manager disabled)..

I have another GTX980 here, but i need an 6 to 8 pin adapter first before i can Test this Card also..
If it does not have coil whine im gonna keep the GTX980 instead of teh GTX970 STRIX (wich from looking on the Webz, coil whine is kinda common, teh whoel 9series from what i was reading).

@clsid

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Maybe madshi could add an option to adjust the queue refill strategy. That could perhaps reduce these kind of side-effects. The queue doesn't strictly need to be nearly full all the time. With a queue of size 8, refill will now happen when it drops to 7. Instead you could wait until it drops to 6 or even 4.
That sounds interessting, is there a way i can test this here? Is that whats causing those "loads" on teh GPU?
I allways thought that the NGU scaler would be one thing that is causing it, and shure enough, when i tested it, NGU did make more noise then Jinc, superXBR did.. So i also settled for SuperXBR for the moment and do not quadruple anymore, since this also caused more noise..


---
But yes, in teh End it looks like thats just the way it is and how a coil/ capacitor/ chock/ resistor/ inductor, etc etc. work...
What i found out, at least for my GPU, is that lowering teh GPU RAM Speed did really help.. So i edited my GPU BIOS a bit, i do not need an OCed Card, so no Biggy for me..

Thanks for all teh Answers here, some good information.....

Best Regards

Last edited by BetA13; 31st May 2020 at 22:25.
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Old 1st June 2020, 02:43   #59666  |  Link
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Color space metadata

Hello,

My display (Sony) calibration was set do "disabled display calibration". When looking HDR content with MADVR the display (Auto detect settings) correctly switched to Bt.2020 and HDR.

But, I recently watched a video that is Bt.2020 non HDR. The Tv Color Space stayed at BT.709. I never noticed that my tv color space didn't switch automatically to the correct color space as 99% of my content is Bt.709. Is it normal that Madvr doesn't sent color space metadata unless HDR. Had to change my calibration to "diaplay is calibrated to BT.709". Doing so, MADVR translate the color space from BT.2020 to BT.709 loosing precious colors during the process but at least the display show accurate color.

Could switch the tv manually to BT.2020 but nobody wants to do that, right?
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Old 1st June 2020, 14:06   #59667  |  Link
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SDR does not have metadata, so there is nothing for madVR to send. You can keep your display in DCI-P3 and set madVR so it coverts BT.709.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 11:56   #59668  |  Link
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Who know anything about future of madvr? Will tonemapping be fixed in future? I can't uncheck "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" to activate two disabled options in "hdr" section. With unchecked "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" picture is reddish and unrealistic (I can not imagine who like it).

What I mean:
https://imgur.com/a/dMvYNJI
https://imgur.com/a/3gUvLj0
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Old 2nd June 2020, 12:31   #59669  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
SDR does not have metadata, so there is nothing for madVR to send. You can keep your display in DCI-P3 and set madVR so it coverts BT.709.
Thank you. I suppose then that when watching tv sd content the tv will switch to smtpe according to resolution. Isn't important, just trying to figure out...

Last edited by wasper; 2nd June 2020 at 12:37.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 15:37   #59670  |  Link
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Originally Posted by alexantr View Post
Who know anything about future of madvr? Will tonemapping be fixed in future? I can't uncheck "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" to activate two disabled options in "hdr" section. With unchecked "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" picture is reddish and unrealistic (I can not imagine who like it).
Yeah, that's the problem of using ICtCp the way it's done, but checking "Compromise in ..." causes other problems that are more evident. Actually I do think this can be fixed, in fact I've been using my own solution for tone mapping for some time now, if you could post the raw BT.2020 screenshot I'd like to check the result. EDIT: Forget it, it would be SDR.

And yes, I think most people would choose the second one.

Last edited by Alexkral; 2nd June 2020 at 18:04.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 16:26   #59671  |  Link
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Well, this is my result for the second:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19Ob...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 2nd June 2020, 16:33   #59672  |  Link
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Originally Posted by alexantr View Post
Who know anything about future of madvr? Will tonemapping be fixed in future? I can't uncheck "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" to activate two disabled options in "hdr" section. With unchecked "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" picture is reddish and unrealistic (I can not imagine who like it).
Tone Mapping has already been substantially reworked in the madVR beta versions with much better results, just need to be patient until its released - or use the betas like many here do if you watch a lot of HDR. But beware, it has many more options to find the proper balance, so its not necessarily fire-and-forget quite yet (hence still beta).
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Old 2nd June 2020, 19:29   #59673  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Alexkral View Post
Well, this is my result for the second:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19Ob...ew?usp=sharing
It looks like my monitor in HDR mode shows.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 22:17   #59674  |  Link
HillieSan
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Hi, where can I download the beta version?
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Old 3rd June 2020, 06:23   #59675  |  Link
huhn
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it's in this thread sorry i don't know the page.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...projector.html
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Old 3rd June 2020, 11:16   #59676  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexantr View Post
I can't uncheck "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" to activate two disabled options in "hdr" section. With unchecked "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" picture is reddish and unrealistic (I can not imagine who like it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexkral View Post
Yeah, that's the problem of using ICtCp the way it's done, but checking "Compromise in ..." causes other problems that are more evident. Actually I do think this can be fixed, in fact I've been using my own solution for tone mapping for some time now...
Interesting, is it publicly available?

There was a discussion about this recently in the beta thread started by @Javs, for about from here (and it goes through 10 pages).
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Old 3rd June 2020, 17:27   #59677  |  Link
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Interesting, is it publicly available?
Currently not, it's a pixel shader with BT.2390 tone mapping (original roll-off), saturation correction and gamut mapping. I'd like to share it at some point but I don't think it's completely finished, it needs some more work and testing, and right now I'm trying to finish another project completely unrelated.

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There was a discussion about this recently in the beta thread started by @Javs, for about from here (and it goes through 10 pages).
I took a look at that until madhi's answer, I'll try to summarize what I think. They are two different concepts. With "Compromise ..." Off, tone mapping and saturation correction are done in ICtCp in two separate steps, resulting in oversaturation and (theoretically) correct hue. With "Compromise ..." On, tone mapping is applied separately to the RGB channels, which directly desaturates them, but although for normal scenes this desaturation is more or less normal, for bright scenes it is clearly too much, to the point that highlights can end up completely white. And it also produces hue shifts, which, as incorrect as they may be, we are used to seeing because they are already present in the SDR.

So in terms of the saturation correction, it would be about finding a middle point, but there is no middle concept, so you have to start from one of the two. Since madhi is not willing to tolerate any hue shift and madVR is completely based on the first concept, I imagine he will try to modify the saturation correction step, and I wish him luck because I consider it extremely complicated. I think that the fact that desaturation is sometimes clearly exaggerated with the second concept, should not make us forget the fact that RGB channels are desaturated in a more natural way in the same tone mapping step, so it's just a matter of avoiding that excess. This can be done even while avoiding any hue shift with some conversions, but honestly, I am used to seeing the fire between yellow and red, also in real life, so maybe the shift is only wrong because we don't know enough about the changes in hue perception related to changes in intensity (see Bezold-Brucke effect), and perhaps the "very bad and un-scientific math" has surprisingly a correct side effect. So of course I understand madhi's point, but instead of adding options to artificially modify it, I think it would be better to allow it naturally up to a limit. But maybe we should ask a firefighter.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 18:43   #59678  |  Link
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SDR does not have metadata, so there is nothing for madVR to send. You can keep your display in DCI-P3 and set madVR so it coverts BT.709.
IMHO that's a display bug/inconsistency. Even if there's no metadata, when receiving UHD the display should switch to BT.2020 colour space as it does with 601/709 when receiving SD/HD. @wasper Are you sure the display colour gamut mode is on 'auto'?
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Old 3rd June 2020, 21:45   #59679  |  Link
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there is even in practice meta data for the color space and you can even set it with nvidia cards to bt 2020.
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Old 4th June 2020, 05:48   #59680  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
IMHO that's a display bug/inconsistency. Even if there's no metadata, when receiving UHD the display should switch to BT.2020 colour space as it does with 601/709 when receiving SD/HD. @wasper Are you sure the display colour gamut mode is on 'auto'?

Headscratch.. why would it do this automatically for 4k. What if someone wants 4K SDR gamut emulation like on PC.
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