DVD REbuilder - Pixelaxted video

Litlfeat · 6th April 2004, 02:59

Jdobbs,

I have been using your rebuilding program since v.20, and have found it to be one of great promise as you continue to work the bugs out of the software with the help of the Doom8 forum. Unfortunately, I have just registered and am not able to post for 5 days; thus I am writing to you directly with the hope of a response.

I have been trying to rebuilder the music dvd, Led Zeppelin disc 1 and 2 which in itself is 7.91G and have been having mixed results for my efforts. First, with any encoder, the final product is always still too large to burn on one disc; with the lowest being 4.79 when using CCE v6.7.0.23. However the video quality was so poor (at 25%) burning even if it had been 4.3G would have been senseless.

When re-encoding with Rejig, the final product was 5.19G when rebuilt with the default settings, however, the video quality was far better then the CCE rebuilt when using its default settings.

Today, I tried QuEcc and set the bitrate at 2750, two pass, and although the rebuilding process is not complete, the video quality is the best of any attempt to date. My feeling is that when the process is finished however, the files will once again be far greater than what will fit one a single dvdr. This in itself does not concern me too much, as I can then use Pinnacle Instant Copy to reduce even further without losing any additional quality.

My question is, can I set video quality so that dvd rebuilder always re-encodes (regardless of what encoding software) at no less then 85% to 90% of the original dvd, with two pass being the default as well. To this point, each time I set the bitrate to 2750, upon closing dvd rebuilder I lose the settings and must reset the values each time the system is started.

Any help that you may be able to give would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Litlfeat

Msc_Alex · 6th April 2004, 08:57

Welcome Litlfeat at the doom7 Forum.

Well you got it working, check the ini file if
MinimizeSpace=0 the output should fit on a dvd+/-r
Also you could set DynamicBitrate at DVD Rebuilder
Mode / Dynamically assign Cell bitrates.

Now this disk is very big (how many hours?)
try and set the Options / AVS Options / Resize to Half D1

This will create a CVD 720x576 will become 352x576 (PAL)which is
fully compatible with the dvd standard.
Now you can use lower bitrates and have SVCD quality.

wmansir · 6th April 2004, 10:43

Your disc is probably using an uncompressed PCM track (common in concert DVDs). The problem is that the audio alone is almost the size of a DVD-R, because these tracks are very large, and since Rebuilder direct copies the audio that leaves little room for the video. Perhaps Rebuilder doesn't calculate the size of these tracks correctly, since they are uncommon?

You could try going to half-D1 as Msc_Alex suggests. But you would still have to find a way to get the correct bitrate. Or you could try compressing the audio to AC3 and reauthoring the disc. That would be a much more complicated task, and is beyond DVD-RB's ability (or any 1-click).

NobbyNobbs · 6th April 2004, 10:53

I can confirm that the Led Zepplin DVD´s contain PCM audio, the DVD might also be something like the Beatles DVD, where you would loose sound on some songs, if you do not keep all audio tracks, but can not conform this.

6th April 2004, 21:58

I can say after compressing three 7GB+ discs with about 180mins of video each (52% compression) that CCE at 3 passes gives excellent results.

But if the disc has PCM audio streams that ALONE take up almost an entire DVD-R, then you'll have to do some manual reauthoring and compressing the audio to AC3, wait for DVD+R DL or split the disc.

And about losing audio, I think it was so that in order to use PCM audio you need to have either an MP2 or AC3 track in there too. So killing the "support" audio track will make the dvd incompatible or something.

NobbyNobbs · 7th April 2004, 00:33

If I remember corectly the disc have several different kinds of audio, all in the same title-set.
Some of the songs/concerts/performances, or whatever contains ( or misses) different audio tracks, so if you remove one of the audio tracks, you might remove the only audio one a song.
This is something I have read about the Beatles DVD, can not confirm it myself.
I know that the Led Zepplin DVD´s are seen as one movie by DVD Shrink, and not as individual "episodes" also from playing it I know that the different songs or performances, (depending on the original source, I belive) have different audio optitions.
A friend have the DVD at the moment, so can not take a look with IfoEdit.

This is the kind of disc that makes me realy long for dual layer, as I find it pretty stupid to remove the best sound from a music DVD, but as usual I also want a decent picture quality.

Litlfeat · 7th April 2004, 05:02

I certainly appreciate all the info that these posts have given me, gives me a number of options to try!

I do know that there are a number of audio streams included in this dvd, which obviously is using most of the space on the dvd; leaving little room for the video files. Interestingly however, I have been able to get a rather good quality copy by using dvd decrypter to rip, dvd2one to shrink, and Pinnacle Instant Copy 8 to burn. If anyone has not tried this program you owe it to yourself to give it a try. IMO, it has produced the highest quality copies of any copy program that I have tried to date, which includes dvd shrink, dvdxcopy, xcopy express, win dvd creator, Nero, dvd2one, and dvd-rb.

The Led Zeppelin dvd's are quite large with disc 1 being 7.63G and disc 2 stand at 7.91G. I have copied other concert videos where I simply used dvd decrypter and Pinnacle ICopy with excellent results.

Will continue using dvd-rb since I believe in the product and use some of the suggestions you have provided me and report back to this thread with the results.

Can't wait until dual layer burners hit the market at a reasonable price, then none of us will need to worry about with the video will fit or not! Hallelujah!!!!!

Nedfu · 7th April 2004, 06:35

I've ripped these dvd's with dvdshrink.

For disc 1 ripped all menus and only kept the performances and the DTS track. It plays fine start to finish.

Disc 2 has some strange branching/angles that dvdshrink 3.1.x was unable to figure out so I left all the menus and extras but tossed the LPCM and DD 5.1 tracks. Extras were redone as still frames but I never look at them. The problem with disc 2 with just DTS is that you need to pick DTS from the audio setup menu before playing any of the 3 segments (royal albert hall, MSG, one other). If you just pick one of those and play you get no DTS and using "next audio track" doesn't work. I *think* DTS works if you pick it the first time and then play 1 of the 3 segments, go back to menu, then play another. A bit messy but not a huge problem.

Regarding the LPCM track, it was something like 2gb so keeping it is is only possible if you ditch the DD/DTS 5.1 tracks, which IMO are much more enveloping.

The video quality is rather grubby on these discs to begin with so you can only expect so much even if you use CCE.

Litlfeat · 7th April 2004, 14:28

If I remember correctly I stripped all audio but AC3 6ch out of the video and was able to get a good quality video using dvd decrypter, copy2dvd, and Pinnacle ICopy. But as you say before playing the video, I must go to the audio menu and chose AC3 from th options given in order for the dvd to play audio for all chapters, etc.

I should give it a try this way in dvd-rb and see how the end result turns out regarding quality.

Thanks for the tip!

6th April 2004, 02:59	#1 \| Link
Litlfeat Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3	DVD REbuilder - Pixelaxted video Jdobbs, I have been using your rebuilding program since v.20, and have found it to be one of great promise as you continue to work the bugs out of the software with the help of the Doom8 forum. Unfortunately, I have just registered and am not able to post for 5 days; thus I am writing to you directly with the hope of a response. I have been trying to rebuilder the music dvd, Led Zeppelin disc 1 and 2 which in itself is 7.91G and have been having mixed results for my efforts. First, with any encoder, the final product is always still too large to burn on one disc; with the lowest being 4.79 when using CCE v6.7.0.23. However the video quality was so poor (at 25%) burning even if it had been 4.3G would have been senseless. When re-encoding with Rejig, the final product was 5.19G when rebuilt with the default settings, however, the video quality was far better then the CCE rebuilt when using its default settings. Today, I tried QuEcc and set the bitrate at 2750, two pass, and although the rebuilding process is not complete, the video quality is the best of any attempt to date. My feeling is that when the process is finished however, the files will once again be far greater than what will fit one a single dvdr. This in itself does not concern me too much, as I can then use Pinnacle Instant Copy to reduce even further without losing any additional quality. My question is, can I set video quality so that dvd rebuilder always re-encodes (regardless of what encoding software) at no less then 85% to 90% of the original dvd, with two pass being the default as well. To this point, each time I set the bitrate to 2750, upon closing dvd rebuilder I lose the settings and must reset the values each time the system is started. Any help that you may be able to give would be appreciated! Thanks, Litlfeat

6th April 2004, 08:57	#2 \| Link
Msc_Alex Junior Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ellis beach Posts: 189	Welcome Litlfeat at the doom7 Forum. Well you got it working, check the ini file if MinimizeSpace=0 the output should fit on a dvd+/-r Also you could set DynamicBitrate at DVD Rebuilder Mode / Dynamically assign Cell bitrates. Now this disk is very big (how many hours?) try and set the Options / AVS Options / Resize to Half D1 This will create a CVD 720x576 will become 352x576 (PAL)which is fully compatible with the dvd standard. Now you can use lower bitrates and have SVCD quality. __________________ ------Utere Cerebro ------

7th April 2004, 00:33	#6 \| Link
NobbyNobbs Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 146	If I remember corectly the disc have several different kinds of audio, all in the same title-set. Some of the songs/concerts/performances, or whatever contains ( or misses) different audio tracks, so if you remove one of the audio tracks, you might remove the only audio one a song. This is something I have read about the Beatles DVD, can not confirm it myself. I know that the Led Zepplin DVD´s are seen as one movie by DVD Shrink, and not as individual "episodes" also from playing it I know that the different songs or performances, (depending on the original source, I belive) have different audio optitions. A friend have the DVD at the moment, so can not take a look with IfoEdit. This is the kind of disc that makes me realy long for dual layer, as I find it pretty stupid to remove the best sound from a music DVD, but as usual I also want a decent picture quality. Last edited by NobbyNobbs; 7th April 2004 at 00:39.

7th April 2004, 05:02	#7 \| Link
Litlfeat Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3	Pixelaxted video I certainly appreciate all the info that these posts have given me, gives me a number of options to try! I do know that there are a number of audio streams included in this dvd, which obviously is using most of the space on the dvd; leaving little room for the video files. Interestingly however, I have been able to get a rather good quality copy by using dvd decrypter to rip, dvd2one to shrink, and Pinnacle Instant Copy 8 to burn. If anyone has not tried this program you owe it to yourself to give it a try. IMO, it has produced the highest quality copies of any copy program that I have tried to date, which includes dvd shrink, dvdxcopy, xcopy express, win dvd creator, Nero, dvd2one, and dvd-rb. The Led Zeppelin dvd's are quite large with disc 1 being 7.63G and disc 2 stand at 7.91G. I have copied other concert videos where I simply used dvd decrypter and Pinnacle ICopy with excellent results. Will continue using dvd-rb since I believe in the product and use some of the suggestions you have provided me and report back to this thread with the results. Can't wait until dual layer burners hit the market at a reasonable price, then none of us will need to worry about with the video will fit or not! Hallelujah!!!!!

7th April 2004, 14:28	#9 \| Link
Litlfeat Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3	Pixelaxted video If I remember correctly I stripped all audio but AC3 6ch out of the video and was able to get a good quality video using dvd decrypter, copy2dvd, and Pinnacle ICopy. But as you say before playing the video, I must go to the audio menu and chose AC3 from th options given in order for the dvd to play audio for all chapters, etc. I should give it a try this way in dvd-rb and see how the end result turns out regarding quality. Thanks for the tip!

6th April 2004, 10:43	#3 \| Link
wmansir Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: USA Posts: 1,919	Your disc is probably using an uncompressed PCM track (common in concert DVDs). The problem is that the audio alone is almost the size of a DVD-R, because these tracks are very large, and since Rebuilder direct copies the audio that leaves little room for the video. Perhaps Rebuilder doesn't calculate the size of these tracks correctly, since they are uncommon? You could try going to half-D1 as Msc_Alex suggests. But you would still have to find a way to get the correct bitrate. Or you could try compressing the audio to AC3 and reauthoring the disc. That would be a much more complicated task, and is beyond DVD-RB's ability (or any 1-click).

6th April 2004, 10:53	#4 \| Link
NobbyNobbs Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 146	I can confirm that the Led Zepplin DVD´s contain PCM audio, the DVD might also be something like the Beatles DVD, where you would loose sound on some songs, if you do not keep all audio tracks, but can not conform this.

6th April 2004, 21:58	#5 \| Link
Joergen Guest Posts: n/a	I can say after compressing three 7GB+ discs with about 180mins of video each (52% compression) that CCE at 3 passes gives excellent results. But if the disc has PCM audio streams that ALONE take up almost an entire DVD-R, then you'll have to do some manual reauthoring and compressing the audio to AC3, wait for DVD+R DL or split the disc. And about losing audio, I think it was so that in order to use PCM audio you need to have either an MP2 or AC3 track in there too. So killing the "support" audio track will make the dvd incompatible or something.

7th April 2004, 06:35	#8 \| Link
Nedfu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 12	I've ripped these dvd's with dvdshrink. For disc 1 ripped all menus and only kept the performances and the DTS track. It plays fine start to finish. Disc 2 has some strange branching/angles that dvdshrink 3.1.x was unable to figure out so I left all the menus and extras but tossed the LPCM and DD 5.1 tracks. Extras were redone as still frames but I never look at them. The problem with disc 2 with just DTS is that you need to pick DTS from the audio setup menu before playing any of the 3 segments (royal albert hall, MSG, one other). If you just pick one of those and play you get no DTS and using "next audio track" doesn't work. I think DTS works if you pick it the first time and then play 1 of the 3 segments, go back to menu, then play another. A bit messy but not a huge problem. Regarding the LPCM track, it was something like 2gb so keeping it is is only possible if you ditch the DD/DTS 5.1 tracks, which IMO are much more enveloping. The video quality is rather grubby on these discs to begin with so you can only expect so much even if you use CCE.