How to detect Dolby Vision in a videofile? - Page 2

d3rd3vil · 28th January 2018, 01:20

So is there sth. new or is it still all a mystery? Can only god and religions help us here?

kolak · 14th February 2018, 22:51

There seems to be some documentation here:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...essionals.html

Blue_MiSfit · 15th February 2018, 01:40

Looks hopeful?

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v2.0.pdf
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v1.1.pdf
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v1.1.pdf
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v1.1.pdf

d3rd3vil · 17th February 2018, 16:25

Ah finally some knowledge behind the DV implementation

nevcairiel · 17th February 2018, 19:44

These docs are barely helpful. You might be able to figure out if Dolby Vision is present in a given stream, but there is absolutely nothing in there to help decoding it.

d3rd3vil · 17th February 2018, 19:50

Man damn shit

Its too late anyway. HDR10+ will soon come and even THEN we wont be able to play or decode DV....HDR10+ it is then

kolak · 18th February 2018, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

These docs are barely helpful. You might be able to figure out if Dolby Vision is present in a given stream, but there is absolutely nothing in there to help decoding it.

Don't expect to see anything public as DV is very proprietary and protected format. Dolby loves their patents etc. Atm. there are only few facilities which can create DV masters ( and only few products which support DV exports).
Same with decoding- only after signing agreement with Dolby you can get access to format specifics.

benwaggoner · 19th February 2018, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3rd3vil

Man damn shit

Its too late anyway. HDR10+ will soon come and even THEN we wont be able to play or decode DV....HDR10+ it is then

The value proposition of HDR10+ and DoVi have significant differences. HDR10+ doesn't specify how the metadata gets used. Dolby certifies DoVi implementations as accurately displaying their content.

No technical reason why the Dolby Vision playback libraries couldn't support HDR10+, for example

Grencola · 6th March 2018, 17:09

If there was only a way to download https://www.scenarist.com/index.php/...titan-landing/ it would be able to do everything with dolby vision we need :/

nevcairiel · 6th March 2018, 17:43

You would be able to create DoVi files with that, playback is still another matter entirely.

Actually, decoding the DoVi metadata is probably not even that hard, its basically a second video stream where the "pixels" are an extra layer of HDR info, and I have seen some documentation on that. So just split it off and decode it. However, interpreting and using that "raw" data is another matter entirely.

benwaggoner · 6th March 2018, 18:18

And MediaInfo 17.12 says it can read Dolby Vision metadata. I haven't tried it yet.

https://mediaarea.net/MediaInfo/ChangeLog

Code:

+ Dolby Vision: detection of Dolby Vision and display of profile for MPEG-TS and MP4 files

SeeMoreDigital · 6th March 2018, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by benwaggoner

And MediaInfo 17.12 says it can read Dolby Vision metadata. I haven't tried it yet.

https://mediaarea.net/MediaInfo/ChangeLog

Code:

+ Dolby Vision: detection of Dolby Vision and display of profile for MPEG-TS and MP4 files

Indeed it can. Here's an example: -

Code:

General
ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
Complete name                            : E:\UHD HDR Test Files\DolbyVision\LG Dolby Trailer 4K Demo [with flag].ts
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 308 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 20 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 31.9 Mb/s

Video
ID                                       : 33 (0x21)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5@Main
Dolby Vision                             : 1.0, dvhe.dtr@uhd24, BL+EL+RPU
Codec ID                                 : 36
Duration                                 : 1 min 19 s
Bit rate                                 : 29.6 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.149
Stream size                              : 282 MiB (92%)

Audio
ID                                       : 35 (0x23)
Menu ID                                  : 2 (0x2)
Format                                   : E-AC-3
Format/Info                              : Enhanced Audio Coding 3
Codec ID                                 : 135
Duration                                 : 1 min 20 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 768 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 187.500 FPS (256 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -948 ms
Stream size                              : 7.41 MiB (2%)
Service kind                             : Complete Main

Grencola · 6th March 2018, 21:36

Quote:

You would be able to create DoVi files with that, playback is still another matter entirely.

The current version of MrMC on Apple TV, as well as the USB port of LG OLEDs and possibly other TVs can playback single layer Dolby Vision files (tested using LG DV Demo .ts file). The problem is that there aren't any single layer DV movies, since UHD Blurays use dual layer Dolby Vision, but with Ateme Titan software you could properly mux the Metadata right onto the main .m2ts and create a playable single layer file

kolak · 7th March 2018, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grencola

If there was only a way to download https://www.scenarist.com/index.php/...titan-landing/ it would be able to do everything with dolby vision we need :/

Are you going to produce DV content with this knowledge or use it to decode "5" existing titles?
At the moment creating HDR10 or HDR10+ is complex enough.

Grencola · 7th March 2018, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolak

Are you going to produce DV content with this knowledge or use it to decode "5" existing titles?
At the moment creating HDR10 or HDR10+ is complex enough.

First of all, there are almost 40 UHD Blurays with Dolby Vision out already: http://www.nextgenhometheater.com/do...lu-ray-movies/ so it's best to get with the times man

Second of all, I don't need to decode anything, I'd simply mux any dual layer Dolby Vision movie into a single layer DV .ts file that current software is waiting patiently to play (see above).

I've tried using TSMuxer, and although it does detect the DV Metadata and creates a single .ts output file, Media Info still shows that the second Dolby Vision video track is along side the main video track. We need to actually encode the DV layer right onto the main layer so it's a single layer profile like the LG Demo in order to play properly. No other software I've found but Ateme Titan seems capable of doing this. The majority of UHD Discs are created using Titan in the first place

The only way to currently watch dual layer DV UHD BD Backups is with an Oppo udp-203 (via USB hdd or burn physical discs). And since it's insanely expensive, it would sure be nice to be able to cater to the rest of the community

kolak · 7th March 2018, 12:31

40 titles is exactly what counts as "5"

It's tiny number.

I'm not sure if you can do it this way.
As far as I understand you decide about 1 layer v. 2 layers on h265 encoding stage based on your case (BD or stream etc).
It's not as easy as taking 2 layers and muxing into 1 layer- you would need to do re-encoding in this case.
1 layer v. 2 layers are not compatible between each other.
You need to decode 2 layers into "final" DV stream and then encode this as new 1 layer h265. 2nd layer (or part of it) of 2 layers stream has to end up in actual video stream ("as video" not metadata) of 1 layer, so re-muxing won't do it.
I may be wrong, but don't think I'm wrong.

Other than this UHD BD is almost dead. After good start, momentum was lost and part of it is because tools are expensive (also studios paying poor money for authoring) and there are almost no independent authoring studios doing UHD BD projects. There is no money in authoring business anymore. You have in reality few companies world wide which are able to do UHD BD (they are all big boys operating on "factory style work", eg. Technicolor, Deluxe etc). Other issue is that many companies lost interests in physical media and there is no one to "drive it". Big studio still release as for them it's making money on the same content just sold in "other form", but at some point it may stop being profitable and end up a niche product, like eg. DVD-Audio was. UHD BD is still the best quality format which end consumer can get and I think this is the main driving power (but streaming is getting better and better).

d3rd3vil · 7th March 2018, 15:29

Yep thats exactly it. We need ts files for the TV to play properly. m2ts doesnt work.
If someone can get this to work then god bless him. m2ts to ts properly.

UHD BD is dead? Wtf do you mean ^^ Its STARTING thats whats happening we are in the golden UHD Bluray age

Und wie man sehen kann, zeigt MediaInfo natürlich keinerlei DV Daten an.

kolak · 7th March 2018, 16:04

You can't convert dual layer DV streams found on UHD BD discs into single layer (playable by TVs) without re-encoding. This can't be done without knowing core of DV format, which is not public and never will be (until reverse engineered).
Atm. DV is very unique format and only tiny number of facilities world wide have technology which allows to create it.

It started quite a time ago with "good start", but current reality is not so shiny.
I know what I'm talking as I have access to this world from "behind the scenes"

I know facts which you don't have idea about as end consumer (not someone who use to work in this industry).

d3rd3vil · 7th March 2018, 16:05

Yes I understand so we are entirely fucked

Grencola · 7th March 2018, 17:38

Well, thanks for your insight. I clearly didn't quite realize the process involved, I knew encoding was necessary and figured Ateme Titan could do this conversion of dual layer to single layer based on this:

"TITAN supports the widest range of input formats, media containers and video codecs, and can transcode any kind of mezzanine file into multiple outputs such as HEVC main and main 10 profiles up to level 5.2, Dolby Vision profile for 4K Ultra HD, H.264, MP4/MPEG-2 TS for VOD/push-VOD services, or Apple®’s HTTP Live Streaming and Microsoft®’s Smooth Streaming for OTT delivery as well as author-ready SDR/HDR elementary streams for Ultra HD Blu-ray."

Since it can transcode a UHD BD DV profile into a selection of Dolby Vision UHD profiles (the one used for streaming is single layer), I thought that would do the trick :/

Also UHD BD might be on the decline, I won't debate that as you seem to have inside information that I do not, but every week more and more titles are being released. And since they're the best quality version you can find I think it's worth looking into as there's a huge community of people who own DV TV's that would love a lossless UHD collection.

17th February 2018, 19:44	#25 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	These docs are barely helpful. You might be able to figure out if Dolby Vision is present in a given stream, but there is absolutely nothing in there to help decoding it. __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

6th March 2018, 17:09	#29 \| Link
Grencola Registered User Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 11	Jackpot If there was only a way to download https://www.scenarist.com/index.php/...titan-landing/ it would be able to do everything with dolby vision we need :/

6th March 2018, 17:43	#30 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	You would be able to create DoVi files with that, playback is still another matter entirely. Actually, decoding the DoVi metadata is probably not even that hard, its basically a second video stream where the "pixels" are an extra layer of HDR info, and I have seen some documentation on that. So just split it off and decode it. However, interpreting and using that "raw" data is another matter entirely. __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

6th March 2018, 18:18	#31 \| Link
benwaggoner Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,770	And MediaInfo 17.12 says it can read Dolby Vision metadata. I haven't tried it yet. https://mediaarea.net/MediaInfo/ChangeLog Code: + Dolby Vision: detection of Dolby Vision and display of profile for MPEG-TS and MP4 files __________________ Ben Waggoner Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video My Compression Book

7th March 2018, 12:31	#36 \| Link
kolak Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Poland Posts: 2,843	40 titles is exactly what counts as "5" It's tiny number. I'm not sure if you can do it this way. As far as I understand you decide about 1 layer v. 2 layers on h265 encoding stage based on your case (BD or stream etc). It's not as easy as taking 2 layers and muxing into 1 layer- you would need to do re-encoding in this case. 1 layer v. 2 layers are not compatible between each other. You need to decode 2 layers into "final" DV stream and then encode this as new 1 layer h265. 2nd layer (or part of it) of 2 layers stream has to end up in actual video stream ("as video" not metadata) of 1 layer, so re-muxing won't do it. I may be wrong, but don't think I'm wrong. Other than this UHD BD is almost dead. After good start, momentum was lost and part of it is because tools are expensive (also studios paying poor money for authoring) and there are almost no independent authoring studios doing UHD BD projects. There is no money in authoring business anymore. You have in reality few companies world wide which are able to do UHD BD (they are all big boys operating on "factory style work", eg. Technicolor, Deluxe etc). Other issue is that many companies lost interests in physical media and there is no one to "drive it". Big studio still release as for them it's making money on the same content just sold in "other form", but at some point it may stop being profitable and end up a niche product, like eg. DVD-Audio was. UHD BD is still the best quality format which end consumer can get and I think this is the main driving power (but streaming is getting better and better). Last edited by kolak; 7th March 2018 at 13:56.

28th January 2018, 01:20	#21 \| Link
d3rd3vil Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 92	So is there sth. new or is it still all a mystery? Can only god and religions help us here?

14th February 2018, 22:51	#22 \| Link
kolak Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Poland Posts: 2,843	There seems to be some documentation here: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...essionals.html

15th February 2018, 01:40	#23 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,989	Looks hopeful? https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v2.0.pdf https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v1.1.pdf https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v1.1.pdf https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...ormat-v1.1.pdf

17th February 2018, 16:25	#24 \| Link
d3rd3vil Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 92	Ah finally some knowledge behind the DV implementation

17th February 2018, 19:50	#26 \| Link
d3rd3vil Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 92	Man damn shit Its too late anyway. HDR10+ will soon come and even THEN we wont be able to play or decode DV....HDR10+ it is then

7th March 2018, 15:29	#37 \| Link
d3rd3vil Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 92	Yep thats exactly it. We need ts files for the TV to play properly. m2ts doesnt work. If someone can get this to work then god bless him. m2ts to ts properly. UHD BD is dead? Wtf do you mean ^^ Its STARTING thats whats happening we are in the golden UHD Bluray age Und wie man sehen kann, zeigt MediaInfo natürlich keinerlei DV Daten an. Last edited by d3rd3vil; 7th March 2018 at 15:40.

7th March 2018, 16:04	#38 \| Link
kolak Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Poland Posts: 2,843	You can't convert dual layer DV streams found on UHD BD discs into single layer (playable by TVs) without re-encoding. This can't be done without knowing core of DV format, which is not public and never will be (until reverse engineered). Atm. DV is very unique format and only tiny number of facilities world wide have technology which allows to create it. It started quite a time ago with "good start", but current reality is not so shiny. I know what I'm talking as I have access to this world from "behind the scenes" I know facts which you don't have idea about as end consumer (not someone who use to work in this industry). Last edited by kolak; 7th March 2018 at 17:58.

7th March 2018, 16:05	#39 \| Link
d3rd3vil Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 92	Yes I understand so we are entirely fucked

7th March 2018, 17:38	#40 \| Link
Grencola Registered User Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 11	Well, thanks for your insight. I clearly didn't quite realize the process involved, I knew encoding was necessary and figured Ateme Titan could do this conversion of dual layer to single layer based on this: "TITAN supports the widest range of input formats, media containers and video codecs, and can transcode any kind of mezzanine file into multiple outputs such as HEVC main and main 10 profiles up to level 5.2, Dolby Vision profile for 4K Ultra HD, H.264, MP4/MPEG-2 TS for VOD/push-VOD services, or Apple®’s HTTP Live Streaming and Microsoft®’s Smooth Streaming for OTT delivery as well as author-ready SDR/HDR elementary streams for Ultra HD Blu-ray." Since it can transcode a UHD BD DV profile into a selection of Dolby Vision UHD profiles (the one used for streaming is single layer), I thought that would do the trick :/ Also UHD BD might be on the decline, I won't debate that as you seem to have inside information that I do not, but every week more and more titles are being released. And since they're the best quality version you can find I think it's worth looking into as there's a huge community of people who own DV TV's that would love a lossless UHD collection.