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Old 28th November 2016, 22:16   #40941  |  Link
huhn
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even windows and GPU driver are using 23p/23 hz for 24000/1001
and not to forget madVR...

but what ever.

playing a 23p file at 120 hz without reclock or smoothmotion will result in a frame repeate from time to time about all 42 sec. if you don't see that fine for you but it still happens.

something like that: https://abload.de/img/23pproblem.yyuz0.png
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Old 28th November 2016, 22:20   #40942  |  Link
Georgel
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Did you try software decoding? Had a similar issue with a R9 390 and 1080p 60fps H.264.
I have the same problem on GTX 1080.

There are some spikes to 200ms on decoding sometimes, but GPU usage is way under 100%, but it doesn't impact frame rate...



GTX 1080 can do everything at max, but on img upscaling luma / chroma / downscale at high on NGU with this version - but cooling is too noisy so it's not a profile to run for everyday enjoyment.

Settings for enjoyment ///

chroma / NG / high
downscling / JINC
UPSC / NGU / luma high, chroma / auto, downscale / medium - activate only if needed

refinement thin edges at 4.2 after every 2X step

I guess that my settings are not half as crazy as I made it seem throughout the time.

There is still a considerable amount of grinding / coil whine that is not there without NGU, but the image quality is way too good to skip.

Now it's the time I watch my poorly encoded Anime Music Videos and old Anime with a better image!

/This thing makes Fate anime series look like image quality is on steroids!
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Old 28th November 2016, 22:26   #40943  |  Link
JarrettH
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Originally Posted by fedpul View Post
IMHO, I think what madshi is trying to do is let the options that really change IQ and remove the ones that are super power hungry for almost no visible difference, and I am not talking the difference you can see if you see pixel per pixel at 1cm from the screen, but at a normal view distance. It is like an audiophile that can claim that can hear differences between redbook standard and ultra HD tracks (means no offence, I am just being objective). Probably if madshi shows us two different settings telling which algos are in the presets he shows, and asking us to identify, we could fail or have 50/50 chances to be right. Like blind tests for audio files.

I repeat, this is just my opinion.
Yep. I mean when you get down to it, for instance with chroma upscaling, super-xbr brings it to a good quality level, but I hope you don't blink (and your nose must be touching the screen) when looking for improvements after
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Old 28th November 2016, 23:02   #40944  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
I have the same problem on GTX 1080.

There are some spikes to 200ms on decoding sometimes, but GPU usage is way under 100%, but it doesn't impact frame rate...
You mostly have to stay below 90% GPU usage with madVR to avoid drops. I don't have any spikes with GTX 1070, a lot of load and DXVA2-cb.
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Old 28th November 2016, 23:04   #40945  |  Link
Telion
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Originally Posted by MS-DOS View Post
madshi, anti-ringing checkbox in image downscaling is greyed out for me. Switching to chroma upscaling and back makes it active until I close the settings window.
The same goes for "image upscaling" when non-doublers are selected.

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Originally Posted by omarank View Post
I would want to choose the upscaling algorithm to be used after image doubling for further upscaling to the target resolution. That algorithm may also be used for upscaling to lower scaling factors which donít activate the selected image doubling algorithm. For instance, if NNEDI3 or NGU is selected in upscaling settings to be used, say, when scaling factor is 1.5x or bigger, Bicubic60 AR is used for upscaling to less than 1.5x scale factor whereas I would want to use Jinc there.
+1. Doublers shouldn't be mutually exclusive with non-doublers. I also vote for some kind of a custom/advanced checkbox for doublers which would switch their drop-down content from quality profiles to specific algorithms so their combination can be selected more freely.
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Old 28th November 2016, 23:05   #40946  |  Link
ikarad
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
even windows and GPU driver are using 23p/23 hz for 24000/1001
and not to forget madVR...

but what ever.

playing a 23p file at 120 hz without reclock or smoothmotion will result in a frame repeate from time to time about all 42 sec. if you don't see that fine for you but it still happens.

something like that: https://abload.de/img/23pproblem.yyuz0.png
With reclock, I have frame repeated about all nearly 5 min.
I can have the same thing or even better (6.3 min for frame repeated) if I create custom resolution with 119.88hz (exact multiple of 23.976).

With 119.88 or 120hz or reclock, I have never seen the difference. Have you a recording to see the difference?

Last edited by ikarad; 28th November 2016 at 23:23.
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Old 28th November 2016, 23:28   #40947  |  Link
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Originally Posted by omarank View Post
I too have been using Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling after 720p to 1080p doubling, with previous madVR builds. Bicubic150 or SSIM1D look too sharp to my eyes in some cases.


I agree.

I would want to choose the upscaling algorithm to be used after image doubling for further upscaling to the target resolution. That algorithm may also be used for upscaling to lower scaling factors which donít activate the selected image doubling algorithm. For instance, if NNEDI3 or NGU is selected in upscaling settings to be used, say, when scaling factor is 1.5x or bigger, Bicubic60 AR is used for upscaling to less than 1.5x scale factor whereas I would want to use Jinc there.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you do that with profile groups now? Even with the new GUI? Just set srcWidth <= ??? "bicubic60ar + double scaling with NGU or NNEDI3" and srcWidth > "jinc" (since jinc disables doubling)?

I'm quite liking the new GUI so far.
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Old 29th November 2016, 00:31   #40948  |  Link
kalston
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you do that with profile groups now? Even with the new GUI? Just set srcWidth <= ??? "bicubic60ar + double scaling with NGU or NNEDI3" and srcWidth > "jinc" (since jinc disables doubling)?

I'm quite liking the new GUI so far.
I think it's not too much to ask to be able to chose which upscaler to use after the doubling like we could before. I'm sure you can find a workaround in the meantime but wasn't this GUI update supposed to streamline things?

Or maybe he should just make JincAR the default instead of bicubic60, there are still some integrated GPUs that can choke on it (my Surface 3's with some content) but it should be fine for the vast majority of users.
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Old 29th November 2016, 02:44   #40949  |  Link
Telion
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madshi, since v0.91.2 I have a problem when NGU image upscaler uses Bicubic60 to process chroma. The picture is a mess of coloured rectangles and mostly freezed while I can see that the luma part is moving. Switching between 100% window and windowed FS modes or changing the size of a window, I noticed that the freezed image is based on the last one that was shown correctly in a 100% or below-doubling upscaled window. Even if I restart the player and go FS before opening the same video, the freezed image would be linked to a previous run of the player. If it is a new video, the freezed image would be based on its first frame. If I switch to NGU high and select NGU to also double the chroma there is no such problem, and when using non-doublers either. I can't test NNEDI3 on my ancient rig and it is on XP, so I suppose the problem is related to its old presentation path since no one has reported it yet.

Debug log & screenshot
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Old 29th November 2016, 03:32   #40950  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Crimson Wolf View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you do that with profile groups now? Even with the new GUI? Just set srcWidth <= ??? "bicubic60ar + double scaling with NGU or NNEDI3" and srcWidth > "jinc" (since jinc disables doubling)?

I'm quite liking the new GUI so far.
I don't think there is a way with profiles to override the forced algorithms used after image doubling unfortunately.

For instance, to use Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling after 720p to 1080p doubling.
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Old 29th November 2016, 04:58   #40951  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
For instance, to use Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling after 720p to 1080p doubling.
I recommend that everyone who wants a particular option available post a screenshot showing the improvement with your content. madshi has always been responsive to suggestions when shown real benefits.
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Old 29th November 2016, 06:46   #40952  |  Link
Backflash
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
no not at all.

most content is 23p (24000/1001 hz) and 25/50 content will judder at 120 hz.
smoothmotion is very useful for 120 HZ screen and like said before audio clock issue are fixed too.
It doesn't work. not at 120 or 144hz, it simply doesn't switch on itself unless you force it
it works only for very rare 30 fps on 144hz, it doesn't work on 120
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Old 29th November 2016, 07:12   #40953  |  Link
Backflash
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Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
NGU still oversharpens noticeably on mid-quality SD content. I don't want to resort to enhancements to mess with the image, I'd like to use a clean image doubler instead. But by your argument, I'm already doing it right and NGU should do well. It's simply too harsh of an upscaler.
Can you post a screenshot please? Maybe i'm testing on wrong SD content, just curious.

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Agreed. I just want to be able to use Lanczos3 AR again for luma/chroma upscaling and luma downscaling, after NGU. The new settings don't give me the same result as before. This is a regression for advanced users.
Please post comparisons, personally i'm simply curious what I can't see you can.

And you can actually use lanczos for upscaling luma/chroma but without doubling. But didn't it do the same job before?
ngu double->lanczos upscaling of doubled image if resolution was still too low pretty much negating ngu double?
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Old 29th November 2016, 08:43   #40954  |  Link
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Can you post a screenshot please? Maybe i'm testing on wrong SD content, just curious.
I tried, anyway. NGU does have nice detail, and it's still fast. sXBR is softer overall and doesn't introduce any patterns even on higher sharpness.

Look at Deacon's hand or the windowblinds for example. There's a fuzzyness that you can spot in the cereal lettering. Look at the second house from the right, as well as the brick fence. NGU turns lines into jaggies. On the plus side it curbs ringing better than sXBR. These shots are without any further enhancements, just chroma, doubling and scaling.

Also when watching this SD stuff with compression artifacts in it, NGU makes these much more obvious in the moving picture, while sXBR tends to gloss over them. Stills don't really show this too well.

Anyway.. I don't expect you to agree with this. I like the soft-to-medium scalers the most so on that point I'm probably the odd man out.


Last edited by Schwartz; 29th November 2016 at 08:51.
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Old 29th November 2016, 08:53   #40955  |  Link
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I think NGU wins in all of the above images... I also detest softness, so that may be why I think NGU wins

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Old 29th November 2016, 09:13   #40956  |  Link
Backflash
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Anyway.. I don't expect you to agree with this. I like the soft-to-medium scalers the most so on that point I'm probably the odd man out.
Yeah, I don't really understand that, I hate blur, I have enough of that in real life. I think you can lower those artifacts on NGU a bit with thin edges and sharpen edges 0.5(or even lower) with AR and optional AB. Image enchantments tab, they are not resource hungry.
LumaSharpen sometimes helps, but not with every source.
You probably tried that already, works for me, maybe will for someone else.

Oh and also do not forget about soften edges in refinement.

Last edited by Backflash; 29th November 2016 at 09:37.
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Old 29th November 2016, 10:32   #40957  |  Link
Mistery 73
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I need your advice I have a nvidia 1070 GTX video card do you think it's worth having a GTX 1080 to make better use madVR?
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Old 29th November 2016, 10:50   #40958  |  Link
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I need your advice I have a nvidia 1070 GTX video card do you think it's worth having a GTX 1080 to make better use madVR?
Upgrading from 1070 to 1080 is not worth it. Maybe upgrading to 1080Ti in january, or wait for Volta.
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Old 29th November 2016, 10:57   #40959  |  Link
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thank you Betroz
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Old 29th November 2016, 11:07   #40960  |  Link
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if you use two 1070 GTX graphics cards in SLI get excellent results with madVR?

Last edited by Mistery 73; 29th November 2016 at 11:09.
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