Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 6th May 2016, 22:21   #37781  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
The higher the upscaling factor, the less SuperRes strength you need to see a distinct effect of it.
Matter of personal taste if you want to have a stronger or weaker effect. High SuperRes strength looks less artificial than other sharpen filters, however you can get problems with aliasing, mostly when the source is bad.
I find the opposite; the higher the scaling factor, the higher the value of SuperRes is appropriate because of how soft the image becomes.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2016, 22:26   #37782  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
Ok, what do you recommend that I change/remove?
At 2x (1080p -> 2160p), I would use SuperRes (3) without anti-bloating because SuperRes really doesn't bloat all that much if the image is not oversharpened. Nor does it need anti-ringing. enhance details (1.0) is another shader that is not redundant. To me, SuperRes at the right strength provides plenty of sharpening on its own.

sharpen edges and LumaSharpen are likely pushing the image towards being oversharp and are redundant. If you like the image really sharp, I might add sharpen edges with anti-bloating but not LumaSharpen on top of that.

Last edited by Warner306; 6th May 2016 at 22:54.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2016, 23:25   #37783  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
With my GTX 970 card I have :

- Chroma upscaling : NNEDI3 128
I've said it before and I'll say it again, good lord why?
Did you read anything in the forum before setting that, or even do a visual comparison between 16 or 32 neurons vs 128? Such a waste of resources.
ryrynz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2016, 23:36   #37784  |  Link
aufkrawall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I find the opposite; the higher the scaling factor, the higher the value of SuperRes is appropriate because of how soft the image becomes.
I don't see where your latter sentence would contradict my statement.
aufkrawall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 02:33   #37785  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
I don't see where your latter sentence would contradict my statement.
You're right; both are true.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 06:27   #37786  |  Link
Uoppi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
You're right; both are true.
So if I understood you and aufkrawall correctly:

The effect of SuperRes may be easier to spot when scaling SD -> 1080p vs. 720p -> 1080p using an identical SuperRes setting (1, 2, 3 etc.)

But because of the softness of SD, a higher SuperRes setting may be required to counter the softness (but with the increased the risk of artefacts). And 720p on the other may become oversharp, so a lower setting might be more appropriate.

Notice the "mays" and "mights". I do realize sharpening is about personal preference. I have sharpness turned to 0 on my Samsung TV; my eyes are sensitive to too much sharpness and start to "hurt".

That's why I tend to use SuperRes at 1, use no other sharpening and direct my available resources towards NNEDI3 processing. Also when downscaling, I use lower values, mostly bicubic 75% and for UHD -> 1080p also 2D SSIM 25%.
Uoppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 08:28   #37787  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again, good lord why?
Did you read anything in the forum before setting that, or even do a visual comparison between 16 or 32 neurons vs 128? Such a waste of resources.
If rendering time is below 30ms, why not? All my content is 23 fps, so my GTX 970 can handle it. Image doubling at NNEDI3 kills performance more.
__________________
My HTPC : i5 6600K | nVidia GTX 1080Ti | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 08:32   #37788  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
If rendering time is below 30ms, why not? All my content is 23 fps, so my GTX 970 can handle it. Image doubling at NNEDI3 kills performance more.
but image doubling will have an effect on image quality unlike nnedi3 chroma at higher neurons.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 08:51   #37789  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
but image doubling will have an effect on image quality unlike nnedi3 chroma at higher neurons.
I know, but super-xbr anti-bloat 25% is good for image doubling too, and the fans on my 970 card doesn't spin up as much as they do with NNEDI3. A good compromise I think. Chroma Upscaling 128 is nice to have with 1080p movies that run 1:1 (no image scaling).
__________________
My HTPC : i5 6600K | nVidia GTX 1080Ti | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 08:53   #37790  |  Link
QBhd
QB the Slayer
 
QBhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
but image doubling will have an effect on image quality unlike nnedi3 chroma at higher neurons.
Exactly, spare those Chroma Neurons and spend them on NNEDI3 Image Doubling. I only bump my Chroma high when there is nothing left to give on Image. When I set up profiles, I always start with Image Doubling and see how high it can go, then if there is room to spare do I add to Chroma. I am sure Betroz could easily drop to 32 Chroma and get some NNEDI3 goodness out of Image Dougling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
I know, but super-xbr anti-bloat 25% is good for image doubling too, and the fans on my 970 card doesn't spin up as much as they do with NNEDI3. A good compromise I think. Chroma Upscaling 128 is nice to have with 1080p movies that run 1:1 (no image scaling).
If the fans are not spinning up for Chroma 128, I highly doubt that it's even being used... Can you post a Screen shot of the OSD with that particular setup?

QB
__________________

Last edited by QBhd; 7th May 2016 at 08:56.
QBhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 09:48   #37791  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
If the fans are not spinning up for Chroma 128, I highly doubt that it's even being used... Can you post a Screen shot of the OSD with that particular setup?
QB
It is, but Chroma 128 doesn't tax my card as hard as Image doubling, at least not when super-xbr is used for doubling/quad. I do have tried diffferent settings...
__________________
My HTPC : i5 6600K | nVidia GTX 1080Ti | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 14:05   #37792  |  Link
Sunset1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 277
just read the new presentation of the new geforce cards. 1070 as strong as 980ti and 1080 stronger than titan... seems we will get a good jump in performance. Now lets see what amd got and then we'll see how much benefits madvr will get from this more powerfull gpu's when upsaling 1080p to 4k on my machine.
__________________
Intel i5 6600, 16 GB DDR4, AMD Vega RX56 8 GB, Windows 10 x64, Kodi DS Player 17.6, MadVR (x64), LAV Filters (x64), XySubfilter .746 (x64)
LG 4K OLED (65C8D), Denon X-4200 AVR, Dali Zensor 5.1 Set
Sunset1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 14:55   #37793  |  Link
wanezhiling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,168
1070 is even stronger than titan x.
wanezhiling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 15:02   #37794  |  Link
Uoppi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
I currently use Super XBR 75 for doubling with some profiles where I can't afford NNEDI3. I'm considering whether I should try switching to Super XBR anti-bloat 25 because many seem to like it.

Any pointers as to the strengths/weaknesses of each, i.e. with what material would I best see their benefits or drawbacks? I've understood they should look pretty close.
Uoppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 15:34   #37795  |  Link
BluesFanUK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
just read the new presentation of the new geforce cards. 1070 as strong as 980ti and 1080 stronger than titan... seems we will get a good jump in performance. Now lets see what amd got and then we'll see how much benefits madvr will get from this more powerfull gpu's when upsaling 1080p to 4k on my machine.
Neither card is a substantial enough upgrade over a 980Ti to get more performance out of MadVR. Nvidia have provided no real proof other than one's apparently the equivalent of a Titan X and the other can out perform 980SLI.

The real performance cards are due out next year. The next Ti should allow some serious high settings for pushing 1080p@60 on to a 4K screen.

Speaking of which, i'm actually glad I downgraded my monitor back to 1080 (the 4K one I had was too hazy for my liking). I can use pretty much any setting I like now with my 980Ti and I can barely notice any difference. 4K is a gimmick. Beneficial to gamers perhaps, but you'd need a good 60-70" screen to appreciate the difference for video watching.

On another note, IMO, NNEDI3 is a complete waste of resources and I think Super-XBR looks miles better. I had all the settings ramped up on one of my profiles for 720p using NNEDI3, GPU was at about 99% with no dropped frames and no real improvement on screen. Changed to Super-XBR, less resource heavy and sharpens my images enough to look 1080. Guess it really is down to personal taste.
BluesFanUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 15:38   #37796  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesFanUK View Post
Neither card is a substantial enough upgrade over a 980Ti to get more performance out of MadVR. Nvidia have provided no real proof other than one's apparently the equivalent of a Titan X and the other can out perform 980SLI.
The current estimates (from their presentation information and the core/clock ratio) go around 15-20% over a TitanX/980Ti at stock, with easy 20% OC headroom, which personally I find substantial. Only benchmarks will reveal the real information either way however, and anything else is just speculation, both positive and negative.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 16:01   #37797  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanezhiling View Post
1070 is even stronger than titan x.
They said that at the end, but I think that was taking their VR viewport trick into account (since that adds another ~40% performance in VR). Still, the 1070 won't exactly be a pushover either.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 16:16   #37798  |  Link
Stereodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Region 0
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The current estimates (from their presentation information and the core/clock ratio) go around 15-20% over a TitanX/980Ti at stock, with easy 20% OC headroom, which personally I find substantial. Only benchmarks will reveal the real information either way however, and anything else is just speculation, both positive and negative.
But who knows if the new architecture will actually be faster or not for madVR. Nvidia pretty much had AMD's number in the last gen when it came to gaming performance, but AMD's cards offered better madVR performance. A Nvidia card that was effectively the equal in gaming of a given AMD model had considerably higher rendering times with the same madVR options.
Stereodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 16:33   #37799  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
But who knows if the new architecture will actually be faster or not for madVR. Nvidia pretty much had AMD's number in the last gen when it came to gaming performance, but AMD's cards offered better madVR performance. A Nvidia card that was effectively the equal in gaming of a given AMD model had considerably higher rendering times with the same madVR options.
The Pascal architecture doubles the parallelism by making SM units smaller and doubling their count (64 vs 128 cores per SM, compared to Maxwell, Kepler had 192 cores per SM for comparison), which should help any tasks that are incredibly parallel, which image scaling should fall under. But in the end we won't know until we know.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 7th May 2016 at 17:02.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2016, 18:27   #37800  |  Link
har3inger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 139
BluesFanUK, try out bilateral chroma with superchromares 2. I personally prefer it to all other algorithms (including nnedi3), and it costs way less than nnedi3.
har3inger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.