madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[omarank]

My screenshots were created with the jpg source file that I shared with you. I have tried resetting the settings earlier too and even now. I get the same result. As I mentioned in my screenshots, I was using Catmull Rom AR LL for downscaling and not SSIM clean AR LL. Interestingly, I just tried SSIM clean AR LL with the jpg file and I got a reddish image (this didn’t happen with any of the videos that I played).

Please see the two downscaled images from the below link: I have kept the OSD on for both – one is with CR AR LL and other with SSIM clean AR LL downscaling. Both the screenshots were taken using 0.90.7 build after reset of the settings, only the downscaling algo was changed.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2g...fter_Reset.rar

Incidentally, even in your downscaled image, the edges of melons are not that smooth as you get with 0.90.4 build. Also you have taken a smaller downscaling factor. I think the above screenshots with the OSD will make things more clear.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by omarank

My screenshots were created with the jpg source file that I shared with you. I have tried resetting the settings earlier too and even now. I get the same result. As I mentioned in my screenshots, I was using Catmull Rom AR LL for downscaling and not SSIM clean AR LL. Interestingly, I just tried SSIM clean AR LL with the jpg file and I got a reddish image (this didn’t happen with any of the videos that I played).

I can't reproduce any of this.

Originally Posted by omarank

Incidentally, even in your downscaled image, the edges of melons are not that smooth as you get with 0.90.4 build. Also you have taken a smaller downscaling factor. I think the above screenshots with the OSD will make things more clear.

Huh? I've used exactly the same downscaling factor as you've used in your original images. If I lay your images on top of mine, size matches pixel by pixel (except that yours have black bars and mine has not).

The edges are not as smooth because you've used Catmull-Rom while I've used SSIM. Here's my result with v0.90.7 with Catmull-Rom:

http://madshi.net/melon907cr.png

Looks pretty much the same as your v0.90.4 image to me.

Your v0.90.7 image looks almost like nearest neighbor downscaled to me, or something like that. I've really no idea what's going on here. As I said, I cannot reproduce any of the problem you're seeing. I've also tried all 3 GPU manufacturers (Intel, NVidia, AMD), just to make sure. Works everywhere just fine for me.

You can please create a debug log for me with v0.90.7 with Catmull-Rom LL?

Can anybody else reproduce omarank's results?

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by madshi

Can anybody else reproduce omarank's results?

Looks fine here.
I do get an image that looks much like his when I use the two GPU texture scalers, ie. NN or Bilinear, but any of the pixel shader look fine.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Looks fine here.
I do get an image that looks much like his when I use the two GPU texture scalers, ie. NN or Bilinear, but any of the pixel shader look fine.

Same here. Thanks for testing!

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

You can please create a debug log for me with v0.90.7 with Catmull-Rom LL?

Ok, please download the logs from the below link:

Debug log after a reset of the settings:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/kk...fter_Reset.rar

Debug log with my settings:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/rm...y_Settings.rar

I get the same result in both the cases.


I hope you have seen the screenshot which I shared in my previous post showing the reddish image that I got with SSIM Clean AR LL downscaling.

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

I've used exactly the same downscaling factor as you've used in your original images. If I lay your images on top of mine, size matches pixel by pixel (except that yours have black bars and mine has not).

Yes, your downscaling factor is the same. The browser was resizing the image.

[madshi]

Ok, your GPU doesn't seem to like D3DFMT_L16 textures for some reason. On my GPUs that texture format works just fine. Which GPU, OS and driver version are you using?

[madshi]

Try this one:

http://madshi.net/madVRl16.rar

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

Ok, your GPU doesn't seem to like D3DFMT_L16 textures for some reason. On my GPUs that texture format works just fine. Which GPU, OS and driver version are you using?

GPU: Intel HD Graphics 4000 (Core i7 3630QM)
GPU driver version: 10.18.10.3304
OS: Windows 8.1 64 bit
It’s an Optimus Laptop. I disabled the nvidia GPU for some testing. I can maybe test with that too later.

I have an AMD system as well but I will be able to do testing on that system perhaps day after tomorrow.

Originally Posted by madshi

Try this one:

http://madshi.net/madVRl16.rar

With this build I get the same result as your screenshot. So what I thought was due to newer downscaling method was actually a texture format problem.

[madshi]

If that build fixes the issue then no need for further tests. So now you can go back to check if you can find a problem with the new downscaling method...

[omarank]

Ok. It's late night here, tomorrow I will compare the new downscaling method with the previous one again.

[madshi]

madVR v0.90.8 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: downscaling "a lot" on some GPUs/drivers produced nearest neighbor
* fixed: NNEDI3 doubling + SSIM downscaling could result in green tint

This will probably be the last build until next weekend.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

"Extreme sharpness" is not per se afflicted by artifacts, what's the problem? I really like the sharpness and there's not haloing and not much aliasing (at least with the clean SSIM configuration).

You might have a point but the problem is that both SR's with a strength of 1 are already very sharp so in combination with NNEDI3 it's all very seriously sharp and "clean" SSIM makes it even sharper, I'm in the market for a sharper CR AR LL and SSIM in .4 was just that. Anyway, I'll play around with bicubic downscaling as it comes with a whopping number of six sharpness levels

[madshi]

For those interested, here's another comparison, downscaling soccer *a lot*, to simulate "pip" (picture in picture) use:



From what I can see "SSIM detailed" reproduces the texture of the soccer field with the best detail, but the white circle in the middle is terribly aliased. Would be nice if we could combine the best of SSIM "detailed" and "clean" into one algorithm, I guess.

Originally Posted by leeperry

I'm in the market for a sharper CR AR LL

In that case simply use Bicubic AR LL. Catmull-Rom is identical to Bicubic50. So if you just want something a little bit sharper, try Bicubic75 AR LL, or maybe Bicubic100 AR LL.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by madshi

This will probably be the last build until next weekend.

Thanks for your continuous efforts to keep madVR bugfree. I assume it works totally reliably for most people due to this.

[Warner306]

This question was not answered yesterday and buried in subsequent posts:

Can someone tell me the purpose of the option to turn off 3D in the operating system?

[madshi]

Yes, it was answered.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by Warner306

Can someone tell me the purpose of the option to turn off 3D in the operating system?

It was answered, but the thread is moving fast.

Originally Posted by madshi

In 3D mode some GPUs stay in frame packed output mode. Which means the display stays in 3D mode all the time. 3D mode may have a different calibration (e.g. a different gamma curve to make up for the light loss caused by using active shutter). Also it may flicker a bit when using active shutter.

Another reason is that NVidia GPUs like to crash when staying in 3D mode, and then playing back 2D content through D3D11 with madVR.

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by madshi

For those interested, here's another comparison, downscaling soccer *a lot*, to simulate "pip" (picture in picture) use:

I would go for clean any day on this one. I actually am quite impressed how clean manages to improve sharpness compared to Lanczos, while only showing very little aliasing, which is what I personally find already pretty optimal.

When looking at the detailed image, it's not just the circle that looks quite nasty, but also the score banner and it's fonts that actually look blocky now, and the playtime clock (look at the 3, which is almost complete destroyed) is barely readable anymore, which is already going into the opposite direction of what we're trying to achieve. Also the banner background color gradient suddenly looks wrong compared to Catmull or Lanczos.

At most, I would let clean be like it is, while you could try and tune "detailed" to maybe be even better than clean. Remember though that what we're seeing with detailed is a heavily modified image in some parts, which is what I would keep away from at all cost.

EDIT: When comparing this on a high DPI display like an iPad 3 (sRGB at about 2.2-2.3 gamma) the playtime clock is becoming perfectly readable with clean (great improvement to Lanczos, Catmull and Bicubic), while on the detailed image I am not able to discern the 3 anymore, it looks like "]". With clean, the whole image gets a nice increase of sharpness, and readability and visibility of fine detail is improved, but not to the point of being obtrusive, like the detailed one is.

[JarrettH]

Why didn't we settle on simply bicubic50 or 75 (instead of catmull) when downscaling was long ago discussed?