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18th December 2017, 00:44 | #47781 | Link | |||
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so it is your choice if you go 4:2:2 10 bit or RGB 8 bit for 60 HZ which will be double dithered(and i tested the amd dithering to 6 bit is is pretty much random dithering not bad but not good too 10->8 bit should be the same but hard to test because it looks very similar) windows 10 HDR shoudl work at 8 bit even with AMD cards. Quote:
and i wonder how people confirm stuff like this... |
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18th December 2017, 00:46 | #47782 | Link |
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It's frankly not that difficult to test for yourself ... I watched a few HDR movies in 4:4:4 12bits and RGB 8bit, and frankly, without using comparison shots, I wouldn't be able to see any difference on a 2016 LG 4k OLED panel. 8bit RGB with a custom resolution to avoid frame drop seems like the better alternative from what I personally tried.
What madshi and others said makes sense : better reduce the number of conversions and drop down the bitdepth than try to push for max bitdepth and induce who knows how many post processing treatments on which you don't have any control. Now, if only Nvidia gave us the possibility to make proper custom resolutions other than 8bit RGB ...
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18th December 2017, 02:09 | #47783 | Link | |
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I remember testing a while ago and the difference was subtle, but it was there for 10bits HDR content. When I tried to see a difference with bluray content (8bits SDR), I couldn't see any difference between 8bits and 10bits. I don't have the time to do more pixel peeping just because some prefer to watch HDR 10bits content dithered to 8bits. I want as close as the "pure direct" equivalent as I can get . I do agree though that it's not the end of the world if you drop to 8bits, but I want the same PQ as my standalone player (or better) with MadVR, not worse.
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18th December 2017, 02:16 | #47784 | Link |
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We are not saying we prefer dithering 8 bit to 10 bit, only that no one can tell the difference all else being equal.
The point is only that you should not sacrifice anything for 10 bit output, not that 8 bit output is better. Edit: And you always have to dither, you simply dither to 10 bit or 12 bit instead of dithering to 8 bit.
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18th December 2017, 02:50 | #47785 | Link | ||
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Therefore there is no need to use 4:2:2 with nVidia. I use 12bits 4:4:4 for 99.99% of films, and 8bits 4:4:4 for the odd 60p film such as Billy Lynn. I did tell you that it was not only the input but all the chain up to the panels that was 12bits. I don't have the reference here but it has been confirmed. It wasn't the case for the pre-2015 JVCs, which had 12bits inputs but 10bits panels. Quote:
I suggest we discuss this again when you have been able to compare 8bits vs 10bits output on native 10/12bits panels. Until then, I'm out.
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18th December 2017, 05:44 | #47786 | Link |
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Hi guys, question... Is there any way that when Madvr automatically changes to 23hz also change the bit depth to 12 bits? with the old Nvidia drivers I could do it. Is there any other software that I can use in Windows 10 and combine it with Madvr or run independently from Madvr?
Thks
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18th December 2017, 07:28 | #47787 | Link | |
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I am using a 2017 LG OLED, which is native 10 bit.
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18th December 2017, 07:35 | #47789 | Link |
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10 bit
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18th December 2017, 08:08 | #47791 | Link |
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there are 8 bit panels that can do dolby vision.
LG never confirmed more than 10 bit internal processing. they even featured this as a new "thing". WRGB OLED can't be properly compared anyway it needs heavy processing to even get an image on the screen and if the sub pixel are really run with 10 bpc that would mean this screen has 40 bpp. |
18th December 2017, 08:21 | #47792 | Link | |
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18th December 2017, 08:38 | #47793 | Link | |
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Last edited by edcrfv94; 18th December 2017 at 11:06. |
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18th December 2017, 09:55 | #47794 | Link |
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Not yet, NGU is currently only in madVR.
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18th December 2017, 10:26 | #47795 | Link |
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on W10 suddenly there is tearing in Full Screen mode, even with Exclusive Mode enabled. Doesnt happen with EVR (Potplayer) or VLC.
If I disable DX11 renderer in Madvr and switch to Fullscreen, screen becomes black with sound on the background. Player freezes and I have to kill the app via taskmanager. Using Nvidia gtx1060 and gsync monitor I even clean reinstalled the drivers |
18th December 2017, 13:09 | #47796 | Link |
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People managing to get 10bit / 12 bit on FULL RGB 4:4:4, are you using monitors rather than TV/HDMI/ Receivers?, when I choose 4:4:4 full RGB I lose both the 12 bit and 10 bit options in my AMD control Panel suggesting its just not possible to get 10/12 BIT FULL RGB on current HDMI specs.
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18th December 2017, 14:51 | #47797 | Link | ||
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18th December 2017, 15:38 | #47798 | Link | |
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Although i've not tried it for a while and there have been a few firmware updates, might try it again. |
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18th December 2017, 16:09 | #47799 | Link | |
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By "I don't want to dither if I don't have to", I assume you mean "dither further than I have to", since you'll need to dither down to 10bit from MadVR's higher internal representation. But it's those kinds of wordings that made me bring this topic up in the first place. If someone were to assume "10bits, great. Just like my input" as the take away message, they could be dithering more than needed because something in their pipeline downconverted along the way. It was more a cautionary mention rather than "everyone needs to not do this", but I think it got a little muddled along the way. Oops. |
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18th December 2017, 16:48 | #47800 | Link |
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Your TV might have a 10.2gb HDMI max bandwidth, or your cables might not be good enough to pass through more than that. Make sure you select 23p when trying any chroma/bit depth combination, in order to make sure you don't cause a bandwidth issue (or at least you limit it).
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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