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26th November 2017, 12:33 | #47321 | Link |
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What you think about NGU Sharp without any extra sharpness? IMHO:
NGU Sharp look very sharp by default, edges looks thin and sharp in focus. Another situation when you use NGU AA for image upscaling. NGU AA + post sharp can be better than NGU Sharp for low quality sources, because NGU AA can fix some edges, where NGU Sharp\Standard just sharp it. Try something like this: Artifact removal - Debanding: Low\Low or med\med Artifact removal - Deringing: Off Artifact removal - RCA: What you like Image enhancements: Off Chroma: NGU AA High Image doubling: NGU Sharp High (looks like you prefer sharp image) Chroma doubling: Off\ let madvr decide Upscaling refinement: Off Dithering: Orderer edit: + Last edited by thighhighs; 26th November 2017 at 13:37. |
26th November 2017, 13:20 | #47322 | Link | |
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but in term of anti alasing (ignoring chroma) i give FSRCNN more points but i would nearly for sure use NGU AA on this source. i'm not a fan of NGU sharp on anime in general lines can look really strange. |
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26th November 2017, 13:34 | #47323 | Link | |
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Can you point me to where in the image exactly you see FSRCNN having lower aliasing than NGU Sharp? |
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26th November 2017, 13:38 | #47324 | Link | ||
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i mean the price of HBM is about 3x GDDR5 and currently the major benfit of HBM is powerconsumption. AMD evne has a zero power GHPU function and not using this woudl be quite a waste. i'm just guessing here so whatever will take a some time until we see these devices anyway. Quote:
i eman even with the handbrake copyback issues on AMD side these cards where usually still a lot faster than nvidia cards back in the nnedi 3 days. |
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26th November 2017, 13:45 | #47326 | Link | |
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Let's try to upscale the Bluray ( NGU very high / NGU very high + AS 0.5 / NGU very high + AS 0.5 LL ): Zoomed (AS with LL off and on) : http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124629 I prefer with LL off, because it is sharper for the same value. Higher values for LL only accentuate artifacts around the edges so it is not fair to compare with different values. The old NGU is also closer to the UHD Bluray : Zoomed : http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124639 Old NGU looks a lot better also for me for this movie, but I do not know if it was downscaled with LL or not. |
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26th November 2017, 14:02 | #47328 | Link | |
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Talking about the big baby's head: How about the more obvious differences, like the big baby's mouth, the eye brows, the nose? Thanks! |
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26th November 2017, 14:20 | #47329 | Link | ||
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I still wish you would properly align chroma for MPEG-1 especially as nevcariel said that he was willing to cooperate but it still looks great when outputting properly aligned RGB32 off ffdshow so no biggy I guess Quote:
For the record I only use RCA@1, anything higher is too strong to my taste. And somewhat unrelated to mVR but as much as we care about shielding of A/V cables, it seems that power cables are vastly overlooked and a triple-shielded garden-hose one has tremendously improved sharpness on my Sammy TV. Identical cable actually did the same on my G3-550 powered PC but then again I pickup +40 wifi networks here so not having them interfering with my A/V gear does appear to do the magic Last edited by leeperry; 26th November 2017 at 14:43. |
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26th November 2017, 15:12 | #47330 | Link | |||
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well i guess we want the image close to the original but one bonus of upscaling was anti alaising. NGU is just so sharp that it is hard to totally avoid alaising. Quote:
but i just gave FSRCNN(and i through waifux2 is a bad name...) more points for anti aliasing and nothing else and the new image isn't that much better now the chroma bleeding was hiding the aliasing quite a bit. but the thin lines from NGU have a bad part to at the bottom line of the red hat top center. the line is nearly completely gone now while FSRCNN makes it relative big now but the source has this line. is there a reason you have to use a JPG with mpv don't tell me they don't support PNG? but why else should you add a jpg and a PNG as source... |
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26th November 2017, 16:10 | #47331 | Link | |
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http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=210 |
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26th November 2017, 16:28 | #47332 | Link | |
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26th November 2017, 16:33 | #47333 | Link | |||
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That said, most aliasing that was introduced through downscaling is removed by NGU Sharp very effectively. Which all the conventional algos like Bicubic, Lanczos or even Jinc don't do. Quote:
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mpv does support PNG, but it doesn't activate FSRCNN(X) when I try to "play" a PNG or BMP file. I'm not completely sure why, maybe the source has to be YCbCr instead of RGB, I don't know. It's weird, but that's the way it is. I've used the highest possible JPG quality level, though, which is without any visible compression artifacts, even when zooming in. So it should be ok. I would have compared with PNG, if I could, of course. Last edited by madshi; 26th November 2017 at 16:36. |
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26th November 2017, 17:50 | #47334 | Link | ||
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and it looks like NGU sharp has problems with aliased sources too not only "bad" sources. Quote:
another issue i notice with FSRCNN is the "noise" reproduction. this old source has some colored noise in it and this noise is sometimes reproduced in a checkboard pattern which is really ugly. |
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26th November 2017, 20:54 | #47335 | Link | |
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it must be a pain in the ass to answer all questions i guess so that was easy fix since this Kuro have a native gamut close to DCI P3 i just select this display is already calibrated and choose DCI P3 then. thats the closest. but even then downconverting uhd hdr content to srgb colors with a display that has a wider gamut doent look bad. colors gets slight more oversaturated but not in a bad way as you would have with blu ray content |
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26th November 2017, 21:40 | #47336 | Link | ||
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I'll move it up in the priority. It's really annoying that the functionality *seems* to be there, but simply doesn't work.
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26th November 2017, 21:51 | #47337 | Link | |
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Sharper Anime
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26th November 2017, 21:54 | #47338 | Link |
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So guys, sorry to say, but no new madVR build this week. I tried, but didn't manage to complete a new build...
To wet your appetite, here's what I'm working on: I'm trying to fuse "NGU Sharp" + "Reduce Compression Artifacts" into one. Well, not really, but partially. Uhm. Ok. So if you don't use NGU Sharp, everything will stay as it is now. But if you activate both NGU Sharp + Reduce Compression Artifacts at the same time, basically RCA will come for free. So you get a nice speed reward for combining NGU Sharp + RCA. However, you can still use both separately, of course. First results seem promising. I'll need your tests to check if there's any quality loss when using the fused algorithm instead of doing both separately. I hope there'll be no quality loss, but I'll let you test it, once it's ready to go. Maybe ready next weekend, maybe the weekend after that, but probably no later then 14 days from now. For a start, it will only be available for NGU Sharp, maybe I'll also offer it for NGU Standard/Soft/AA, don't know yet. It's all a lot of work, so... --------------------- In the meanwhile, I'd like your FEEDBACK on the following 3 questions: 1) Do we need "double again/twice" for NGU Sharp/Standard/Soft? Or is everybody happy with "direct quadruple"? I'd really like to remove the "double again" option, because it's dramatically bad for performance and IMHO also looks worse. But here's your chance to object, before I remove it. 2) Anybody still using NNEDI3 for chroma upscaling? If so, is there a good reason why you prefer it over NGU AA? I'd really like to remove NNEDI3 chroma upscaling, because it's simply worse than NGU AA, IMHO, and slower, so removing the option should be all good, and make the settings dialog simpler. 3) Anybody still using NNEDI3 for image upscaling? If so, is there a good reason why you prefer it over NGU AA? I've recently seen an image comparison where NGU AA Medium was significantly better than NNEDI3-128 (sharper, more detailed *and* more natural), so I really wonder if there's any need for NNEDI3, anymore? If I could remove NNEDI3 completely, that would be a relieve, because I could completely get rid of OpenCL, with all the driver issues etc. |
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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