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Old 26th February 2009, 15:14   #1  |  Link
keysersose
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DTS MA Encoder

I'm looking for a DTS MA encoder - purpose to backup 5.1 DVD-A and SACD discs to a lossless format..

Thanks
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Old 26th February 2009, 15:45   #2  |  Link
ron spencer
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you have thousands and thousands of dollars?

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DTS have just effectively stuck the boot right in as far as the new HD DVD and BRD codecs all go with the announcement of their new series of HD encoders.
At a list price of $1495 for the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite and $795 for the DTS-HD Surround Audio Suite, the prices compared to Dolby's True HD Media Encoder are far more realistic - and more importantly affordable.
(Dolby's True HD Media Encoder is a whopping $8,000)

Other benefits are perhaps a little more subtle as the Dolby version - if used in Lossless mode, also encodes a second core stream containing the original Dolby Digital codec as well whereas the DTS encoders do everything in one core stream with all the bells & whistles being contained in the extensions.
Also - perhaps even more importantly - DTS-HD is the ONLY one that is actually mandated - fully - for both BRD and HD DVD.
The Dolby lossless is mandated for stereo only.....

Last edited by ron spencer; 26th February 2009 at 15:54.
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Old 26th February 2009, 15:56   #3  |  Link
ron spencer
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I meant at least in the thousands....
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Old 26th February 2009, 16:18   #4  |  Link
keysersose
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Last edited by keysersose; 26th February 2009 at 19:14. Reason: as it violates Rule 6..my apologies
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Old 26th February 2009, 16:41   #5  |  Link
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@keysersose

Please remember and follow rule 6. Don't discuss such things here.
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Old 26th February 2009, 17:55   #6  |  Link
shon3i
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Use FLAC instead becuase is more complex and offer better compession ratios than DTS-MA, if you don't care about hardware compatability. Anyway for DTS-MA you need Blu-ray player probably.
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Old 26th February 2009, 19:06   #7  |  Link
keysersose
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Originally Posted by shon3i View Post
Use FLAC instead becuase is more complex and offer better compession ratios than DTS-MA, if you don't care about hardware compatability. Anyway for DTS-MA you need Blu-ray player probably.
with DTS-MA I would make the discs as AVCHD so that cheap DVD blanks can be used..or albums can be kept as ISO files on your HD..

and yes a Blu-ray player is needed and that's the main reason for doing this - it's very likely that at some point no one will continue to make players that can play both SACD and DVD-A discs, but BR players will be with us for quite some time..
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Old 26th February 2009, 22:29   #8  |  Link
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Originally Posted by keysersose View Post
with DTS-MA I would make the discs as AVCHD so that cheap DVD blanks can be used..or albums can be kept as ISO files on your HD..

and yes a Blu-ray player is needed and that's the main reason for doing this - it's very likely that at some point no one will continue to make players that can play both SACD and DVD-A discs, but BR players will be with us for quite some time..
BTW, i wonder if it is possible to rip SACDs?
If you know how to, i'd be appreciated.
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Old 26th February 2009, 23:19   #9  |  Link
keysersose
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BTW, i wonder if it is possible to rip SACDs?
If you know how to, i'd be appreciated.
There is no way to read and rip from a PC - I have though converted my SACD collection over to DVD-A..

you plug your player into a multichannel soundcard and record the 6 mono waves then re-encode into MLP..

I have a new sound card that has HDMI in so hopefully I can record the discs and avoid the D->A conversion

I haven't tried yet till I could go the DTS-MA route
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Old 26th February 2009, 23:24   #10  |  Link
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There is no way to read and rip from a PC - I have though converted my SACD collection over to DVD-A..
How and over what cable?
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Old 26th February 2009, 23:52   #11  |  Link
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How and over what cable?
you connect 6 cables from your EXTERNAL SACD player into a soundcard with 6 analog inputs..

new card is HDMI so just one HDMI cable from external sacd player into the card..
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Old 27th February 2009, 00:15   #12  |  Link
rica
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you connect 6 cables from your EXTERNAL SACD player into a soundcard with 6 analog inputs..

new card is HDMI so just one HDMI cable from external sacd player into the card..
I wonder really what card has 6 analog inputs or what SACD player has HDMI output?
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Old 27th February 2009, 00:56   #13  |  Link
ron spencer
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In any case this is an ANALOG signal...and it is not passing high resolution anyway. Only way to get full digital is a hack to player to pass toslink out to card with toslink in.

no sacd has hdmi I think
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:23   #14  |  Link
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In any case this is an ANALOG signal...and it is not passing high resolution anyway.
I beg your pardon???
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Old 27th February 2009, 09:50   #15  |  Link
ron spencer
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he is passing hi resolution audio throught the 5.1 out on back on unit via analog cable...this is not same as sending the audio via digital out (toslink). The high-resolution audio (say 96/24) is being processed by the DA converters on the player. So the poster is not capturing full bandwidth audio. DVD-A and SVCD do not permit full audio resolution pass through of digital audio data via toslink (digital out) or by coax (digital out). Digital out is only way to capute the audio data unimpeded, but as I said, this is not permitted in the DVD-A, SACD world for copy protection reasons. Only way can be done is to rip to hard drive, which you cannot for SACD.

from hydrogenaudio forums:

Quote:
First, you (normally) can't read SACD data using your standard DVD ROM drive.

Second, even if you could read it, the data is strongly encrypted.

Third, even if you could decrypt it, it's compressed by a proprietary lossless compression method.

Fourth, even if you could decompress it, the stream format (DSD) is unreadable by most audio processing software.


SACD has copy protection on the physical level, similar to how Playstation 2 discs are copy protected. The data is encrypted and the key stored in an area of the disc not readable by anything except an SACD device. This is similar to the PS2 copy protection where a code is stored in an area of the disc which can't be read by conventional devices. This also prevents the code being written by a standard burner. Both technologies are designed so only pressing the disc will copy the code (or key in the case of SACD).

To read an SACD, you'd need a reader with an adjusted focal length suitable for reading SACD discs (the standard 1.2 mm length will give you the CD audio track if it's a hybrid or nothing if it's SACD only). The reader would also have to be capable of reading the encryption key. Even if you did this you'd be stuck with a Direct Stream Digital stream and as rjamorim said there are very few tools capable of working with a DSD stream.

The only feasible method of losslessly capturing SACD audio at the moment would be a device that captured data after the decryption stage but before the digital to analog stage. You'd need to modify a hardware SACD player to do this.

Last edited by ron spencer; 27th February 2009 at 10:03.
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Old 27th February 2009, 12:33   #16  |  Link
keysersose
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The former audio card was a M-Audio 1010 - it had the 6 analog ins

My new card is the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe Sound card - 192 kHz - 24-bit - It has HDMI in

The Oppo 980 has HDMI out and will convert SACD to 24/96 LPCM and send this out via HDMI..this signal remains digital..
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Old 27th February 2009, 12:51   #17  |  Link
ron spencer
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That is cool, but signal is transformed from Sony DSD to PCM, which is not completely lossless, but probably acceptable. DTSMA is not needed. Keep LPCM or use FLAC
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Old 27th February 2009, 13:07   #18  |  Link
keysersose
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Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
That is cool, but signal is transformed from Sony DSD to PCM, which is not completely lossless, but probably acceptable. DTSMA is not needed. Keep LPCM or use FLAC

well yes sure I could do what I already have (Ie convert over to DVD-A) but I'm looking at DTSMA simply to go Bluray - I have a MC DVD-A player in the car and I can see these no longer being available soon - whereas I'm sure there will be affordable BR players for the car in a couple of years..

I have no experience with MC Flac - what options would I have to play them on standalone players both for your car and HT? - I would not want to be forced to use a PC to play them..
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Old 27th February 2009, 13:32   #19  |  Link
ron spencer
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well for me I think you are out of luck as no encoder exiasts for u. stick to dvd-a only then...sorry. FLAC is not used on car decks..why do you need high resolution audio for a card deck anyway? Seems more trouble than it is worth. The exercise is fun to figure it out, but in the long run, you are still stuck becuse there is no working dtsma encoder for "regular" people.

Good luck in any case....
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Old 27th February 2009, 14:13   #20  |  Link
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I am a surround sound fanatic with only so much time to listen to MC music in the HT - having DVD-A in the car gives me time to listen to 2 MC albums a day..
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